path: root/meeting-logs/kde-project-meeting-log-20090401.txt

21:01 <@scarabeus> hey
21:01 <@scarabeus> now we can start
21:01 <@jmbsvicetto> I'm out of here. See you later :P
21:02 <@alexxy> jmbsvicetto: stay here =)
21:02 <@scarabeus> hehe
21:02 <@scarabeus> !herd kde
21:02 < Willikins> (kde) alexxy, caleb, carlo, cryos, deathwing00, genstef, jmbsvicetto, keytoaster, mattepiu, patrick, scarabeus, tampakrap, tgurr
21:02 <@scarabeus> krytzz: reavertm Sput wired 
21:02 <@scarabeus> ausing again
21:02 <@scarabeus> meeting time
21:03 <+krytzz> aye
21:03  * tampakrap is here
21:03 <@cryos|work> That was an hour ago wasn't it? I thought we were done :P
21:03  * jmbsvicetto agrees
21:03 <@scarabeus> :D
21:03  * alexxy here or there like a psi^2
21:04 <@scarabeus> bonsaikitten: dont hide, i saw ya
21:04 -!- jmbsvicetto changed the topic of #gentoo-kde to: Official Gentoo KDE Project channel | Next Meeting^Wamarok party: Wednesday April 1st 19:00 UTC | KDE 4 guide: http://tinyurl.com/4n47v4 | Overlays: kde-testing, qting-edge | Want to help us? Ask channel staff for info | Bugs: http://tinyurl.com/kdebugs1 http://xrl.us/qtbugs | Useful links: http://userbase.kde.org/ http://ktown.kde.org/~dirk/dashboard | Want to test KDE4 on a kvm? http://tinyurl.com/by7tv3
21:04 <@scarabeus> !herd qt
21:04 < Willikins> scarabeus: (qt) caleb, carlo, hwoarang, yngwin
21:04  * jmbsvicetto starts jumping around
21:04 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: ok, ok. I'll behave ;)
21:04 <@hwoarang> im here
21:04  * hwoarang GOGO GREEEEEEEEEEEEEECE
21:04 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: well you are the lead, you do the example for us :D
21:05 <@scarabeus> remember we store meeting logs tho :D
21:05 <@tampakrap> i think we shouldn't this time
21:05 <@scarabeus> hehe
21:05 <+reavertm> ok...
21:05 <@scarabeus> reavertm: you are first on list
21:05 <@scarabeus> so speak up
21:06 <@scarabeus> :D
21:06 <+reavertm> so, kdeprefix
21:06 <@scarabeus> http://www.pastebin.cz:80/16911
21:06 <+reavertm> the idea is ... to drop it :)
21:06 <@scarabeus> (list for others)
21:06  * wired back
21:06 <@alexxy> or mask kdeprefix useflag
21:06 <@alexxy> =)
21:06 <+reavertm> (from non kde-base)
21:06 <@tampakrap> i agree
21:07 <+reavertm> I already started to play in dropped-kdeprefix-on-non-kde-base branch if anyone is interested
21:07 <@alexxy> may be better to mask it for all packages
21:07 <+reavertm> in the process I rewritten kde4 eclass
21:07 <@alexxy> so people who realy want could unmask it
21:07 -!- spitfire_ [n=quassel@ackz136.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #gentoo-kde
21:07 <+reavertm> important changes are:
21:07 <@scarabeus> alexxy: nah i prefer nonkdeprefix, it is better
21:08 <@scarabeus> alexxy: less thins to worry about
21:08 <+reavertm> NEED_KDE deprecated in favor of KDE_REQUIRED and KDE_MINIMAL (the latter already there)
21:08 <+wired> scarabeus++
21:08 <@alexxy> scarabeus: i use -kdeprefix too 
21:08 <@alexxy> so we can mask kdeprefix use flag for tree packages
21:08 <@tampakrap> if we mask it, we somehow still provide support for it, something that i don't want
21:08 <@cryos|work> I use -kdeprefix too, but I think it would be nice to keep it as an option that can be unmasked. It has its uses, I just don't think it is for general consumption...
21:08 <@alexxy> so people who want install 4.2 4.3 and live together can unmask it
21:09 <+reavertm> my eclass drops kdeprefix from non-kde-base
21:09 <@scarabeus> alexxy: the part for non-kde-base
21:09 <@scarabeus> not for base kde
21:09 <@scarabeus> :D
21:09 <+reavertm> do you even read me?
21:09 <@scarabeus> we are not removing the flags from kdebase/*
21:09 <@scarabeus> :D
21:09 <@cryos|work> Is there a way to hack it back in for non-kde-base if you don't care about support?
21:09 <@tampakrap> everybody stop typing until reavertm finishes his words please
21:09 <@scarabeus> cryos|work: narp
21:10 <@scarabeus> for the eclass i already read it and i think it is much cleaner, specialy no "get_latest_kdedir"
21:10 <@cryos|work> I work on several packages where I would like trunk and release. I could locally hack it, but the current situation is useful even if not supporte.d
21:10 <+reavertm> RPATH solves possible linking issues
21:10 <@scarabeus> well we droped mostly live slot for packages
21:10 <@scarabeus> cryos|work: buty you can allways override prefix so it shoudl be no prob
21:11 <+reavertm> now packages are built not agains newest available KDE (if more installed) but with the oldest - yet respecting KDE_MINIMIAL
21:11 <@cryos|work> Seems a shame, but I can maintain custom ebuilds for the few I work on.
21:11 <+reavertm> scarabeus: all live slots dropped
21:12 <@jmbsvicetto> hmm, scarabeus / reavertm drop kdeprefix for non-live, right?
21:12 <@scarabeus> for everything
21:12 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus / reavertm: !kde-base live apps should install under /usr/kde/live
21:13  * cryos|work thought that too...
21:13 <+reavertm> /usr/kde/live is KDE release dir and should not contain any 3rd party apps imho
21:13 <@scarabeus> that wont run for pple that install live misc apps for 4.2 in example
21:13 <@alexxy> jmbsvicetto: no =)
21:13 <@jmbsvicetto> We've been talking about this for a long time. all live ebuilds should go under /usr/kde/live
21:13 <@scarabeus> i use lots of live apps
21:13 <+reavertm> how aboyut accessing those live packages from kde 4.2 ?
21:13  * alexxy also use kile amarok and k3b
21:13 <@alexxy> with 4.2 and 4.3 snapshots
21:14 <@alexxy> so i dont like idea of dropping kdeprefix for misk apps
21:14 <@jmbsvicetto> If we use the KDE_MINIMAL it should work, no?
21:14 <@cryos|work> So you are dropping any support for installing/building live apps against live KDE builds?
21:14 <@alexxy> in way as jmbsvicetto said
21:14 -!- [DWSR] is now known as DWSR
21:14 <+reavertm> how is dropping kdeprefix from live packages related to not being able to use them with 4.2 ?
21:14 <@scarabeus> cryos|work: so you think live should be special case...
21:15 <@scarabeus> reavertm: well it can be done so live is special enviroment
21:15 <@alexxy> i think better to mask kdeprefix use flag for all kde in tree
21:15 <@scarabeus> and we can just not bother for it
21:15 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: That's why live doesn't fit in SLOTS ;)
21:15 <@cryos|work> scarabeus: I always have, but I tend to work with live and do development, but want a stable desktop for work...
21:15 <@alexxy> so people who want eg 4.2 and live togther can deal with it
21:16 <@scarabeus> alexxy: current approach is broken
21:16 <+reavertm> I use 4.2 and live non-kde-base stuff
21:16 <@scarabeus> i srsly fear next major release
21:16 <@jmbsvicetto> ok, let's try something different
21:16 <@jmbsvicetto> The point of having kdeprefix was to allow running more than 1 version at the same time
21:16 <@cryos|work> I guess for people with live KDE, and live misc apps built against 4.2 things would likely still work though.
21:16 <@scarabeus> eys that is maintained
21:16 <+reavertm> jmbsvicetto: be more precise
21:16 <+reavertm> more than one version of what?
21:17 <+reavertm> KDE release or any package?
21:17 <@jmbsvicetto> With the exception of live (imo) which should be under /usr/kde/live - the real solution for that is to change the kde build system and have all versions under /usr
21:17 <@cryos|work> KDE, but are you really trying to separate packages that build against it?
21:17 <@scarabeus> well it is like kde3
21:17 <@scarabeus> cryos|work: 
21:17 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: more than one KDE release
21:17 -!- non7top [n=non7top@94.77.134.21] has joined #gentoo-kde
21:17 <+reavertm> and you'll still have it :P
21:18 <@cryos|work> OK - I will stay quiet. I am really busy today anyway and have not been on IRC for weeks....
21:18 < spitfire_> cryos|work: no it doesn't always work. I had quassel built against 4.2 and it didn;t run in live complaining about missing symbols in oxygen.so.
21:18 <@jmbsvicetto> The point is whether anyone is willing to start the work
21:18 <@jmbsvicetto> I haven't looked at that yet
21:18 <+reavertm> spitfire_: 
21:18 <+reavertm> nop
21:18 <@jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: I would like to get your opinion about this issue
21:18 <+reavertm> you had quassel built againd live that didn;'t work with 4.2
21:19 <+reavertm> because so far it was like this - having 4.2 and -9999 - apps were bult againt *the newest* kde
21:19 <@cryos|work> At least now KDE will work if built against an old KDE and linked to a newer one.
21:19 <@scarabeus> yes 
21:19 <@jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: We've talked a lot about this and tried to reach a compromise that would satisfy everyone, so I would like that any change gets our support
21:19 <@cryos|work> So building against 4.2 and linking to live should work, assuming no one screwed up and I do that a lot.
21:19 <@scarabeus> yes it have to wor
21:19 <@scarabeus> the cant break abi
21:19 < spitfire_> reavertm: sry to interrupt but for example quassel never finds kde-live, always builds against 4.2
21:19 <+reavertm> actually there's RPATH
21:20 <+reavertm> if we drop RPATH then we may start worrying about linkage problems
21:20 <@cryos|work> It doesn't have to - people screw up... And there is RPATH which can force linking to a particular path.
21:20 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: that's the "theory", but that's not their practice
21:20 <@alexxy> spitfire_: later
21:20 <@scarabeus> indeed
21:20 <@cryos|work> jmbsvicetto: They do pretty well on the whole, but RPATH alleviates issues with screw ups too...
21:20 <+reavertm> (and I'm going to drop rpath for -kdeprefix)
21:20 <+reavertm> (btw)
21:20 <@jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: all the mess with libplasma, phonon, kdeartwork-kscreensaver, ...
21:21 <+reavertm> phonon is kdeprefix problem
21:21 <@cryos|work> Like I said, they do pretty well... ABI is really tough to keep stable...
21:21 <+reavertm> it install kde4 plugins
21:22 <+reavertm> adding QT_PLUGIN_PATH to /usr/lib64/kde4/plugins could possibly solve it
21:22 <@jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: The problem is that 4.0 was nowhere where they wanted it to be, so they've realized many things required changes
21:22 <@cryos|work> Yeah, I know... Mixing versions is always really tough to get right too.
21:22 <+reavertm> 4.3 is meant to be ABI compliany with 4.2
21:23 <@scarabeus> ok how about removing prefix totaly
21:23 <@scarabeus> and have live/stable
21:23  * jmbsvicetto looks at bonsaikitten 
21:23 <@scarabeus> so live apps are their own env
21:23 <@scarabeus> and the stable is /usr
21:23  * reavertm doesn't get it
21:23 <+reavertm> where does live go?
21:23 <@scarabeus> on the live note we can generate snapshots (weekly)
21:23 <@scarabeus> /usr/kde/live/
21:24 <@scarabeus> everything live
21:24 <@bonsaikitten> jmbsvicetto: what!
21:24 <+reavertm> how is this different from current situation?
21:24 <@scarabeus> i still prefer your solution
21:24 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: To be honest, I'm losing the "motivation" to keep hammering about kdeprefix, but that was the major issue I had to deal with when we started working back in KDE
21:24 <@scarabeus> reavertm: that there wont be kdeprefix anywhrere else than in live
21:24 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: That's why I've resisted so long to dropping it
21:24 -!- ali_bush [n=alistair@gentoo/developer/alibush] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:24 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: well reavers approach is working with +kdeprefix and keeping good usability
21:24 <@jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: Do you still care about kdeprefix or not?
21:25 <@scarabeus> trust me it is  500% better than current solution of mine
21:25  * cryos|work has also grown tired of the back and forth... Just want a reasonably stable env for users, and a solution for developers....
21:25 <@alexxy> kdeprefix can be masked 
21:25 <@jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: As I recall, you also felt it was important to have it and to allow users to mix versions
21:25 <+reavertm> well, it's not working yet :P
21:25 <@bonsaikitten> jmbsvicetto: my opinion hasn't changed since it was introduced
21:25 <@alexxy> so users who sant it will unmask it
21:25 <+reavertm> (plugins are not loaded properly - amarok issue)
21:25 <@alexxy> but its good fature to have more then one kde release installed
21:26 <@scarabeus> i would say lets see how it work and we can roll it out with 4.2.3
21:26 <+reavertm> what's all with this masking kdeprefix?
21:26 <+reavertm> you can use.force it if you like :P
21:26 <@jmbsvicetto> cryos|work / bonsaikitten: So, what do you say about this?
21:26 <@scarabeus> i am for reavers solution
21:27 <@cryos|work> Honestly, I am no longer certain what is being proposed. I feel like we really need to pick a solution and try to stick with it. The Apache team went back and forth over a few years and drove many users away...
21:27 <@alexxy> reavertm's solutions better for misk packages 
21:27 <+reavertm> my idea (if it works) is to be possible to have kdeprefixed releases and the rest in /usr (accessible from any kde installed)
21:27 <@jmbsvicetto> I guess I'll swallow kdeprefix at this time and will try to force me to look at the build system to allow the multiple versions / better split of packages
21:27 <@bonsaikitten> jmbsvicetto: I haven't followed the discussion enough to have useful input
21:28 <@jmbsvicetto> cryos|work / bonsaikitten: Then if you don't oppose, I say we try reavertm's approach
21:28 <@scarabeus> bonsaikitten: kdeprefix for kde-base, misc apps into /usr including live misc apps
21:28 <@bonsaikitten> sounds acceptable
21:28 <@bonsaikitten> as I haven't contributed anything relevant in a while I don't see why I should be the decider
21:28 <@scarabeus> ok majority already agreed
21:28 <+reavertm> well,  there's nothing spectaculat to try now, if it works then we'll see - i need to handle this plugins paths 1st
21:29 <@cryos|work> I can live with it, I would rather be able to put misc live apps in /usr/kde/live too, but can likely hack the ebuilds I care about...
21:29 <@jmbsvicetto> cryos|work / bonsaikitten: If in the end we realize we lost some flexibility, that will only serve to foster the need to look for the real solution (imho) - fixing the build system
21:29 <@bonsaikitten> jmbsvicetto: acceptable :)
21:29 <@scarabeus> bonsaikitten: could you fix at least 258027
21:29 <+reavertm> actually there's not a problem with restoring kdeprefix for misc apps, but
21:29 <@cryos|work> So you are going to try and mix multiple versions in /usr?
21:29 <+reavertm> live kde-misc would nee to have separate prefix :P
21:30 <@jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: I think that's the "final" solution
21:30 <@jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: I don't have any particular skill or knowledge to get it done, though
21:30 <@cryos|work> That sounds amazingly tough to pull off.
21:30 <@cryos|work> Not this solution though?
21:30 <+reavertm> ok, cryos|work what's your proposition?
21:30 <@bonsaikitten> scarabeus: oh ... let's see
21:31 <+krytzz> hm... would that allow to mix 4.2 kdelibs and live kde-misc stuff for example?
21:31 <+reavertm> maybe it apperas easier to handle than kde-misc in /usr
21:31 <@cryos|work> I don't have one, more trying to understand what this proposal is planning on changing.
21:31 <@jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: That solution isn't "compromised" for the current proposal
21:31 <@scarabeus> the current pospal is easing major bumps, lets stick with it for 4.3 and then we can think about updating the build system
21:31  * cryos|work was just trying to figure out if he understood what *this proposal* encompassed.
21:32 <+reavertm> ok, let me summarize
21:32 <+reavertm> the problem with kdeprefix for kde-misc apps is as follows :
21:33 <+reavertm> let's say we have taglib-extras
21:33 <+reavertm> it has optional kde integration
21:34 <@cryos|work> So you are concerned with corner cases?
21:34 <+reavertm> still it's just typical lib and should be accessed globally - it would be nice for it to not be kde-prefixed
21:34 <+reavertm> or any other app - like amarok - I want it installed and used from any KDE4 i have (and I have 4.2, 4.3, live)
21:34 <@cryos|work> I totally agree. I was the one who wanted to throw everything in /usr apart from development builds where people got to pick up the pieces themselves...
21:35 <@cryos|work> If I develop on amarok I can write a custom ebuild if I want it in my /usr/kde/live as any dev can, so the impact is not terrible.
21:35 <@cryos|work> I was more trying to confirm the scope of the changes proposed.
21:36 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: The only issue I see and the reason for the kdeprefix is if you have k3b-1.* working and want to follow k3b-2.* (which I think is still broken), you're not willing to have to choose between one or the other
21:36 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: But as stated, I'm going to drop my "resistance"
21:36 <+reavertm> k3b-1 will be installed in kde3 prefix so i am told
21:36 <+reavertm> (tampakrap?)
21:36 <@cryos|work> That was my concern, but those users could be out of luck...
21:36 <@cryos|work> At some stage having too much choice can spread us too thin.
21:37 <@cryos|work> Many distros are just dropping KDE 3 entirely already.
21:37 <@jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: yeah. The problem is that some users have been mailing us asking us not to do it
21:37 <@scarabeus> ok put it straight: lets just comfor for now on that we are going to support unprefixing misc apps
21:37 <@jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: And I think we haven't convinced everyone in the kde team that kde-4 is better
21:37  * jmbsvicetto looks at yngwin 
21:37 <@cryos|work> I am not proposing we do - I am just pointing out what is happening.
21:38 <@jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: I agree
21:38 <@cryos|work> I think many distros dropped KDE 3 too soon.
21:38 <+reavertm> kdeprefix as great idea and flexibility it adds, it's pain in ass to mantain :P
21:39 <@cryos|work> I was more making the point that Gentoo has such an extreme amount of choice compared to other distros we could end up chasing bugs no-one else cares about that only crop up in slotted envs.
21:39 <+reavertm> (btw, eselect for kde is not required)
21:39 <@cryos|work> Reducing overall quality which is bad. Not claiming I have the answer either... ;-)
21:40 <@scarabeus> :]
21:40 <@jmbsvicetto> we're all brainstorming ;)
21:40 <@jmbsvicetto> tampakrap: How's your work on the kde3 eclasses going?
21:41 <@cryos|work> I am very attached to Gentoo and KDE. I don't want to see it go to crap, don't have as much time as I would like these days.
21:41 <@tampakrap> eclasses are ready
21:41 <@tampakrap> i'm still on the ebuilds
21:41 <@scarabeus> and the packages are compilling fine?
21:41 <@jmbsvicetto> tampakrap: kdeprefix isses on kde4 are hurting us, but colisions with kde3 apps are doing us more harm (imho)
21:41 <@cryos|work> Bumped avogadro for the super nerdy people who want to play though ;-)
21:41 <@tampakrap> i'll tell you what i need
21:41 <@tampakrap> if there are two people willing to test kde3 misc apps that would be greate
21:42 <@tampakrap> great
21:42 <@scarabeus> herd testers i bet
21:42  * wired raises hand
21:42 <@yngwin> evening
21:42 <@scarabeus> also write mail to desktop and dev
21:42 <+wired> yngwin: =]
21:42 <@jmbsvicetto> tampakrap: with kde4 env?
21:42 <@alexxy> cryos|work: i'll test it with students (avogadro)
21:42 <+reavertm> btw, masking kdeprefix is good idea for typical users
21:42  * yngwin completely forgot about the meeting, sry
21:42 <@tampakrap> i'll prepare a list with the packages and eapi2 as well them
21:42 <@jmbsvicetto> tampakrap: if so, I can do some tests
21:42 <@cryos|work> alexxy: Great - I fixed the desktop file among many other things...
21:42 <@tampakrap> i'm on kde-base only still
21:42 <@alexxy> reavertm: yep
21:43 <+reavertm> I guess it should be done when 4.2.2 is introduced
21:43 <@cryos|work> reavertm: That was always my point - typical users don't want/understand kdeprefix. If they do they will unmask and use.
21:43 <@alexxy> i think kdeprefix is not for users
21:43 <@alexxy> =)
21:43 <@cryos|work> It is awesome for devs/power users though.
21:43 <+wired> many users activate it without knowing though, mask++
21:43 <+krytzz> hm... i thought gentoo is for powerusers?
21:43 <@jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: iirc, kdeprefix is no longer an IUSE default
21:44 <+reavertm> I want 4.2.2 stable in portage, so let make it easier for users to use
21:44  * yngwin is with krytzz
21:44 <@scarabeus> krytzz: you. sent. ssh key. me. now
21:44 <@cryos|work> jmbsvicetto: I didn't know it ever was.
21:44 <+reavertm> jmbsvicetto: yeah, but still users see USe flag and enable it out of curiosity :P
21:44 <+wired> krytzz: the definition of a poweruser is amazingly flexible these days....
21:44 <+krytzz> scarabeus: ok, few minutes
21:44 <+krytzz> wired: ok well
21:44 <@scarabeus> cryos|work: YOU CHANGED IT TO ENABLED BY DEFAULT FIRST :D
21:44 <@scarabeus> heh caps
21:45 <@cryos|work> Many Gentoo users are not what I would call power users, but I guess by definition we have more advanced users than *buntu for example..
21:45 <@cryos|work> scarabeus: For :live only!
21:45 <+wired> we also have a lot of users who'd want to be powerusers 
21:45 <@alexxy> he he =)
21:45 <+wired> =]
21:45 <@yngwin> i'd say gentoo targets powerusers
21:46 <@yngwin> doesnt mean all our users are tho
21:46 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: well, that's the same thing as CFLAGS. Gentoo's policy has never been to hide it from the user - even if that leads to user bitting himself in the rear ;)
21:46 <+krytzz> wired: lol
21:46 <+reavertm> btw, our existing problems with kdeprefix *only* phonon and pykde
21:47 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: +affect?
21:47 <@scarabeus> ok back on topic tampakrap are you able to get needed stuff around here or you need our direct intervention (ak more devs searching for testing monkeys?)
21:47 <+reavertm> jmbsvicetto: hmm?
21:47 <@tampakrap> no just some testing mostly
21:48 <@tampakrap> i don't think we should waste more manpower on kde3
21:48  * wired now that we're all here, can someone pretty please cp the latest .2 tbz2s to d.ge.o?
21:48 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: never mind
21:48 <+reavertm> ah, right - phonon and pykde4 - the only really kdeprefix *issue*
21:48 <+reavertm> the rest is just inconvenience
21:49 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: The phonon issue is mostly upstream "hard-coding" the plugins location, right?
21:49 <@scarabeus> ok so kde3 is moving forward, i would say that we need to have it done by end of april some time on may... so we can actualy stable the kde4
21:49 <+reavertm> I can easily not drop kdeprefix and install 3rd party apps with kde they were built against (still changing need_kde behaviour)
21:50 -!- smith_ [n=smith_@adsl-62-167-36-86.adslplus.ch] has joined #gentoo-kde
21:50 <+reavertm> phonon issue is bunding KDE plugins with phonon
21:50 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: we need to go for 3.5.10 stable *soon*
21:50 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: btw i would like to mask the kde
21:50 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: old nonsplit stuff i mean
21:50 <+reavertm> hence, phonon should be in location visihble by all KDE releases
21:50 <@jmbsvicetto> 3.5.9?
21:50 <+reavertm> or kdeprefixed
21:51 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: yes
21:51 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Not without 3.5.10 stable!
21:51 -!- mikkoc [n=mikko@host254-81-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
21:51 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: unless you're the one doing it and I can redirect all bugs, mails, threats, ... to you :P
21:51 <@yngwin> well, we can leave split 3.5.9 unmasked, and just mask the monolithic pkgs
21:52 <@jmbsvicetto> yngwin: we could, but we have quite vocal users already complaining about the drop of the monos for 3.5.10
21:52 <+reavertm> or just put proper blocks
21:52 <@yngwin> then when 3.5.10 is stable, we can mask the rest
21:52 <@yngwin> jmbsvicetto: well, too bad, i'd say
21:52 -!- mikkoc [n=mikko@host182-164-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #gentoo-kde
21:52 <@jmbsvicetto> ok
21:52 <@yngwin> or someone must stand up to become monolithic maintainer
21:53 <+reavertm> jmbsvicetto: who are those vocal users?
21:53 -!- anselmolsm_ [n=anselmo@200.184.118.130] has joined #gentoo-kde
21:53 <+reavertm> devs by occasion?
21:53 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: no
21:53 <+reavertm> idf so, let them step up to maintain :P
21:53 -!- anselmolsm [n=anselmo@200.184.118.130] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
21:54 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: hehe, wait until you become a dev and you'll see how "demanding" some users can be ;)
21:54 <+reavertm> and what was basis for their objections?
21:54 -!- anselmolsm_ is now known as anselmolsm
21:55 <+reavertm> write migrating guide (if there's no already) and that's all. period
21:55 <@yngwin> we've had that for years
21:55 <@scarabeus> yeah i was speaking about the monos
21:55 <@jmbsvicetto> Some people just want monos. I haven't seen many and in particular good motives. But they want them, nonetheless
21:55 <+reavertm> Qt4 split was much more difficult yet it was done
21:55 <+reavertm> jmbsvicetto: I want reiser4 in gentoo-sources and?
21:55 <@jmbsvicetto> ok, ok
21:56 <+reavertm> some people want some things and they won't have it nevertheless :P
21:56 <@yngwin> use hitchhiker-sources then
21:56 <@jmbsvicetto> When they knock at my door I'll be sure to point them somewhere else ;)
21:56  * cryos|work has a meeting... Bye!
21:56 <+krytzz> bye
21:56 <@jmbsvicetto> bye cryos|work 
21:56 <+reavertm> jmbsvicetto: let me brainwash them then
21:56 <+reavertm> bye cryos|work
21:56 <+wired> bye cryos|work 
21:56  * cryos|work will try to contribute more this month!
21:56 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: sorry for the disturbance.
21:57 <@jmbsvicetto> So, about kdeprefix we're done, right?
21:57 <@scarabeus> bb
21:57 <@scarabeus> yes
21:57 <@scarabeus> kde3 and kdeprefix is done
21:57 <@jmbsvicetto> about 3.5 tampakrap will do more tests and is searching for people to help with kde-misc apps
21:57 -!- mx-tvt [n=quassel@bl9-29-140.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:57 <+reavertm> I'll see what i can do - anyway i propose some my changes in eclass anyway as it's much shorter and easier to read now
21:57 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: What's next?
21:58 <+reavertm> plasmoids to tree
21:58 <+reavertm> pros/cons :)
21:58 <@scarabeus> yeah i think we can start adding them
21:58 <@scarabeus> we cook them since pre 4.1 and still in the overaly
21:58 <@scarabeus> so lets make users happy
21:58 <+reavertm> I haven't tested all of them yet
21:58 <@jmbsvicetto> They're in kde-misc now, right?
21:59 <@scarabeus> i will add only those i personaly tested
21:59 <@yngwin> reavertm: that's what ~arch is for
21:59 <@yngwin> :p
21:59 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: yes i did the move, actualy forced wire to move it
21:59 <+wired> i've tried them all at least once
21:59 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: In that case I have nothing to say ;)
21:59 <+reavertm> anyway i already found one problem - systemmontor or sth has been moved to kdeplasma-addons and conflicts with kdeplasma-addons:live
21:59 <@scarabeus> ok i just want to hear OK :D
21:59 <+reavertm> about plasmoids
21:59 <+wired> most of them get regular updates btw and there are a lot more available in kde-look
21:59 <+reavertm> let me check them 1st
21:59 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: we can add a block on a slot package
22:00 <+reavertm> I fixed most deps in kde-misc but still something may be wrond there
22:00 <+wired> i think most plasmoids are simple enough to be safely added to ~
22:00 <+reavertm> wired applied blocks already
22:00 <@scarabeus> ok this one was quick
22:00 <@scarabeus> so we just test them and start moving
22:00 <@scarabeus> :]
22:01 <@scarabeus> next is printing
22:01 <@scarabeus> reavertm: how is it looking
22:01 <+reavertm> printing..
22:01 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: what are we missing? The deps?
22:01 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: we have everything
22:01 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: the problem is it pulls half of gnome
22:01 <+reavertm> if I leave it as it is now - system-config-printer-kde is done, printer-applet not yet
22:01 <+reavertm> scarabeus: no longer
22:01 <@scarabeus> the better then
22:02 <@scarabeus> ok so i will coordinate it with you after 4.2.2 is released (weekend probably)
22:02 <@scarabeus> reavertm: agreed
22:02 <@scarabeus> ?
22:02 <+reavertm> just let me finish printer-applet the way I did system-config-printer-kde (taking some files from system-config-printer) and they can go
22:02 <+reavertm> scarabeus: yeah
22:03 <@scarabeus> ok cool then
22:03 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: do we have any response on the snapshot thingie?
22:03 <+reavertm> I made system-config-printer-kde is totally independent from system-config-printer
22:03 <@jmbsvicetto> Not that I have seen
22:03 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I sent the mail 2 days ago, though.
22:03 <@alexxy> so they simply ignoring us
22:03 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: ok so alexxy will have to do it himself for all the time
22:04 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I think as cryos|work was suggesting, we ignore them for now and keep doing the work alexxy is doing
22:04 <@scarabeus> alexxy: btw i heared some noise about l10n not working
22:04 <@alexxy> scarabeus: its working for -kdeprefix
22:04 <+reavertm> Dirk was in kde-devel for a minute
22:04 <@alexxy> didnt test it with +kdeprefix 
22:04 <@alexxy> =)
22:04 -!- mkyral [n=maros@nezmar.jabbim.cz] has left #gentoo-kde []
22:04 <@scarabeus> ok then it is their issue they can fix it
22:05 -!- sIbOk [i=sNOUbOR@56.Red-80-36-227.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #gentoo-kde
22:05 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: again one more on you
22:05 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: how is dead member removing
22:05 <@scarabeus> going on
22:05 <@jmbsvicetto> I'm going to go over the retirement bugs (I think a few of them have already retired) and will then send mails to the folks that haven't been around for a long time
22:06 <@jmbsvicetto> I'll have the page cleaned by next meeting
22:06 <@scarabeus> ok
22:07 <@scarabeus> pykde
22:07 <@scarabeus> bonsaikitten: 
22:07 <@scarabeus> so you say it works
22:07 <@scarabeus> despite the bugs in bugzilla
22:07 <@bonsaikitten> I haven't been able to reproduce
22:07 <+reavertm> problem with pykde4 is kdeprefix
22:07 <@bonsaikitten> I guess I'll need to change my testing strategy :)
22:07 <+reavertm> all kde installs pykde4 in site-packages
22:07 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: build or runtime error?
22:07 <@alexxy> so lets mask kdeprefix use flag
22:07 <@alexxy> =)
22:07 <+reavertm> install
22:07 <@alexxy> like it was for networkmanager
22:07 <+reavertm> so - two choices
22:07 <@scarabeus> there was sip buildtime errors
22:08 <+reavertm> make eselect module or slot them properly
22:08 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: I have pykde-4.2.1 installed with +kdeprefix here
22:08 -!- kamik [n=quassel@dslb-088-065-079-200.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #gentoo-kde
22:08 <+reavertm> so that pykde4 live will go to /usr/kde/live and so on
22:08 <+reavertm> jmbsvicetto: install pykde4-9999 as well
22:08 <+reavertm> you need package.provided entry now to do it
22:09 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: I'm not running live ebuilds here
22:09 <+reavertm> well, some people are :)
22:09 <@jmbsvicetto> sure, I'm just conveying my experience here
22:09 <@scarabeus> one +kdeprefix is ok
22:09 <@scarabeus> more than one kdeprefix is fail
22:09 <@scarabeus> for pykde
22:09 <@jmbsvicetto> ah, ok
22:10 <+reavertm> hell, it even install files in /usr/share/sip
22:10 <+reavertm> (apart from site-packages)
22:11 <+reavertm> bonsaikitten: some QA  notice says that precompiled modules need to go to site-packages
22:11 <@bonsaikitten> :(
22:11 <+reavertm> is it possible to create external site packages in kde slot? (/usr/kde/4.2 etc)
22:12 <+reavertm> and set some PYTHON_PATH or whatever in startkde?
22:12 <@jmbsvicetto> This is why having multiple versions around in /usr is going to be "messy" :\
22:13 <+reavertm> bonsaikitten: what useful python env variables do you know that would help here? :)
22:13 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: perhaps the correct solution here would be to remove the python files and have a single package that is used by all versions?
22:13 <+reavertm> that is also possible but...
22:14 <+reavertm> pykde4 happeds to install /usr/kde/live/lib64/kde4/kpythonpluginfactory.so
22:14 <+reavertm> which is in kdeprefixed location
22:14 <@jmbsvicetto> if they didn't break abi compatibility, it should be possible to use the latest pykde version with earlier 4.X releases
22:14 <+reavertm> installing it in /usr prefix is the same thing like installing kde-misc in /usr
22:15 <+reavertm> (may not work - like this plugin thing I'm struggling with)
22:16 <+reavertm> yes, I'm not worrying about linking, it should work - still ebuild would need some tweaks to make it build not agains kde release it is from but minimal installed
22:16 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: pkgconfig!!
22:16 <@scarabeus> he he he
22:16 <@scarabeus> again prefix you
22:16 <@scarabeus> SILENCE
22:16 <@scarabeus> :D
22:17 <+reavertm> what is pkgconfig going to solve?
22:17 <@alexxy> lets mask kdeprefix =)
22:17 <+reavertm> buildig is no longer an issue :P
22:17 <+reavertm> running is :)
22:17 <@jmbsvicetto> If they were using autotools they could use pkgconfig to chose the minimum so version needed
22:18 <+reavertm> jmbsvicetto: ah, eclass does it already 
22:18 <+reavertm> (picks lowest kdelibs, yet >=KDE_MINIMAL)
22:18 <@scarabeus> ok i gues we are done with the pykde :P
22:18 <+reavertm> are we?
22:18 <@yngwin> hardmask?
22:18 <+reavertm> what's the solution then :P
22:18 <@scarabeus> yeah lets kitten handle it
22:19 <@scarabeus> also write whiny mail on dev
22:19 <+reavertm> I'd slot the f*er
22:19 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: hehe - solution? hand it over to Patrick ;)
22:20 <+reavertm> along with phonon
22:20 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: yup
22:20 -!- cypr1nus [n=cypr1nus@plus.ds14.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:20 <@scarabeus> (i am practising my "solid-rock" face)
22:20 <+reavertm> or ,If I get plugins in /usr to work, it will be solved
22:20 <@scarabeus> :]
22:21 <@scarabeus> so, um, what was next, ah, koffice2
22:21 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: I haven't looked at that in a long time, but can't you specify more than 1 RPATH?
22:21 <@jmbsvicetto> reavertm: more than 1 dir in RPATH
22:21 <+reavertm> RPATH is not problem, they are all linked well, just app can't find those plugins
22:21 <@jmbsvicetto> isn't it supposed to look in the compiled RPATH?
22:22 <+reavertm> I am yet to check some things
22:22 <+reavertm> for plugins? no
22:22 <+reavertm> RPATh is just for linker
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22:23 <+reavertm> if plugins are in /usr/kde/XXX/lib64/kde/ and /usr/kde/XXX/lib64/kde/plugins - app needs to know where to find them
22:24 <+reavertm> (usually just works if app was comopiled against kde XXX and istalled in /usr/kde/XXX
22:24 <+reavertm> otherwise it fails to find them even when KDEDIRS and QT_PLUGIN_PATh is pointed there
22:25 <+reavertm> yet I'm to test some things so we'll see - it should work somehow
22:25 -!- cypr1nus [n=cypr1nus@plus.ds14.agh.edu.pl] has joined #gentoo-kde
22:25 -!- looonger [n=looonger@host-89-231-128-7.rawamaz.mm.pl] has quit [Client Quit]
22:25 <+reavertm> I have manually compiled kdevelop in ~/kde4 and my KDEDIRS just points there and it workds
22:26 <+reavertm> so maybe it's something with building it gentoo way
22:26 <+reavertm> (I guess I'll try kdeprefix-less kdevelop...)
22:27 -!- _Phlogi [n=quassel@138-135.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #gentoo-kde
22:27 <+reavertm> ok, what's next?
22:27 -!- non7top [n=non7top@94.77.134.21] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:27 <@scarabeus> koffice
22:28 <+reavertm> I built kword and it works
22:28 <@scarabeus> the state is i fixed the crap
22:28 <@scarabeus> it works
22:28 <@scarabeus> problem is that it is not much usable
22:28 <@scarabeus> they are going to release it at the end of this month
22:28 <@scarabeus> so i will add it to the tree
22:28 <+reavertm> 2.0? oh crap
22:28 <@scarabeus> but i am not sure if it should go masked or not
22:28 <@scarabeus> 2.0 indeed
22:29 <+krytzz> released? oh zomg :p
22:29 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: maybe we should get an rc in the tree first, no?
22:29 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: ideas?
22:29 <@scarabeus> well i have the tarball and it is just matter of renaming
22:29 <@scarabeus> anyone can do it
22:29 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: the rc could be masked and pending bug reports, 2.0 would be unmasked or not
22:30 <@jmbsvicetto> The 2.0 tarball?
22:30 <+reavertm> btw, let someone just in any case look at those ebuilds and see whether deps are correct (rdepend, depend, commondepend handled carefully)
22:30 <@scarabeus> yeah i am worried about it and in doubts
22:30 <@scarabeus> it definetly is stable
22:31 <@scarabeus> but it lacks some features and it looks just ugly
22:31 <@tampakrap> i like the :live one though
22:31 <@tampakrap> haven't tested the releases
22:31 <@tampakrap> maybe we can create snapshots
22:32 <@scarabeus> what for
22:32 <@scarabeus> i have todays taged rc1
22:32 <@scarabeus> :D
22:32 <@tampakrap> ok then
22:32 <+reavertm> KOffice 1.9.99.0 RC1 uploaded
22:32 <@scarabeus> not yet, it is on ktown :]
22:32 <+reavertm> just pasted announcement
22:32 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: so what do you thing the stable at the end of the month as pure testing or hardmasked?
22:33 <@jmbsvicetto> I haven't used koffice myself, so I'm not sure
22:34 <@jmbsvicetto> But if you're in doubt, try pusing something masked into the tree and check for bug reports
22:34 <@scarabeus> ok
22:34 <@scarabeus> good idea
22:35 -!- Varox [n=Varox@p4FD44E52.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #gentoo-kde
22:35 <@scarabeus> last thing on the list:
22:35 <@scarabeus> moving the meeting date
22:35 <@scarabeus> i would like to see meeting 14 days before upstream release for public
22:35 <@jmbsvicetto> pushing*
22:35 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: releases what? ;)
22:36 <@tampakrap> we don't have much to talk before release i think
22:36 <@scarabeus> kde
22:36 <@scarabeus> we are kde team
22:36 <@tampakrap> after release is everything that comes in surface
22:36 -!- sIbOk [i=sNOUbOR@56.Red-80-36-227.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["kUALKIER hiJO dE pUTA sAbE lO q dARTE sI tIENE q dOLERTE pERO No kUALKIER hiJO dE pUTA sABE lO q dARTE sI tIENE q gUSTARTE, y]
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22:38 <@scarabeus> hmm
22:38 <@scarabeus> what does other think?
22:39 <+krytzz> hm 
22:39 -!- Phlogi [n=quassel@138-135.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:40 <+wired> maybe a week is enough?
22:40 <+krytzz> i would agree with tampakrap i think, but i have nothing against short-dated meetings
22:40 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: floating schedule or point to 3rd Thursday of the month?
22:40 <@scarabeus> 3rd thursday i had on my mind
22:40 <+krytzz> when $PANIC_LEVEL reaches 10 would be good :p
22:41 <@scarabeus> well or 4th week
22:41 <@jmbsvicetto> krytzz: Isn't it too late by then? ;)
22:41 <@scarabeus> the problem is that release is today
22:41 <+krytzz> k... 9? :p
22:41 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: 4th will hit council meetings
22:41 <@scarabeus> ok i will write to summary what ever you decide :]
22:42 <@jmbsvicetto> I think 3rd would be better, but am open to other dates
22:42 <@yngwin> 3rd sounds good
22:43 -!- MaNI [n=malcolm@dsl-247-169-66.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #gentoo-kde
22:45 <@scarabeus> ok i go for 3rd too then
22:45 <@jmbsvicetto> So, what are we missing?
22:45 <@tampakrap> one last joke
22:45 <@tampakrap> hwoarang wants me to change my cloak to gentoo/slacker/tampakrap
22:46 <@scarabeus> hm and you could not write this yesterda
22:46 <+krytzz> hehe
22:47 <@alexxy> he he =)
22:47 -!- g1lt [n=quassel@203-79-94-158.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #gentoo-kde
22:48 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: http://dpaste.com/22343/
22:48 <@scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: again no log, i didnt reboot my client yet :D
22:48 <@scarabeus> uptime 48 days cant be ruined :D
22:50 <@jmbsvicetto> hehe
22:50 <@jmbsvicetto> tampakrap: You have a long road to go before you qualify for that :P
22:50 <@jmbsvicetto> tampakrap: We have real "slacker" experts around here ;)
22:50 <@tampakrap> i don't think so, take a look at my cia.vc page
22:51 <@jmbsvicetto> So are we done?
22:51 <@tampakrap> yes, where is the summary?
22:51  * reavertm unpauses music
22:52 <@jmbsvicetto> In that case, let me remind people that we still have a *few* open bugs and that we should all try to help get that number down
22:52 <@scarabeus> tampakrap: http://dpaste.com/22343/
22:52 <@scarabeus> yeah and ehm officaly meeting is over ;]