path: root/2008/03xx08.txt

<NeddySeagoon> Good Evening/Afternoon/Morning ... whatever fits your timezone
[13:26]  <rane> evening
[13:28]  <tgall_foo> hey NeddySeagoon  ....  or ... being entirely time politically correct ... good day cycle citizen!
[13:28]  <NeddySeagoon> heh
[13:29]  <fmccor> Afternoon works.
[13:30]  <fmccor> 2:30PM, thanks to early DST in the US. :(
[13:31]  <tgall_foo> yeah ... we hate it just as much as you fmccor!
[13:31]  <NeddySeagoon> I'm aware of US time zones ... I have to call the West coast more often that I like, but it helps that they seem to like to start early
[14:00]  <fmccor> Getting to be that time.  Wonder if g2boojum has made it here yet.
[14:01]  <g2boojum> Finishing up an e-mail.
[14:01]  <fmccor> Fair enough.  Welcome.
[14:01]  <fmccor> NeddySeagoon, This should be yours to lead, no?
[14:02]  <NeddySeagoon> Hi g2boojum 
[14:02]  <NeddySeagoon> Good to see you.
[14:03]  <NeddySeagoon> I thought we could start with you telling us what you thing we need to know, then we'll ask questions .. is that ok ?
[14:04]  <g2boojum> I just sent two messages to trustees@g.o, so it might be a good idea to read those first.
[14:04]  <NeddySeagoon> ok
[14:05]  * tgall_foo brings those up
[14:05]  <fmccor> Don't have them yet
[14:05]  <NeddySeagoon> Nor me
[14:05]  <g2boojum> I meant to have those sent out beforehand, but I'm at work, and I'm fitting stuff in as best I can.
[14:05]  <tgall_foo> mail is better than no mail .. appreciate you taking the time g2boojum !
[14:06]  <g2boojum> tgall_foo: My pleasure.
[14:06]  <fmccor> tgall_foo, You got them?
[14:08]  <g2boojum> http://rafb.net/p/hwa9aa39.html
[14:09]  <g2boojum> http://rafb.net/p/nCDt9n76.html
[14:11]  <fmccor> Read them, thanks.
[14:12]  <NeddySeagoon> g2boojum, thanks. Its a good start
[14:12]  <g2boojum> Who's handling money?
[14:13]  <NeddySeagoon> tsunam, is
[14:14]  * tsunam waves
[14:14]  <NeddySeagoon> g2boojum,  its ended up like this ...
[14:14]  <NeddySeagoon> Roy  - President
[14:14]  <NeddySeagoon> Ferris - Vice President
[14:14]  <NeddySeagoon> Josh - Treasurer
[14:14]  <NeddySeagoon> Tom - Secretary
[14:14]  <NeddySeagoon> William - Director
[14:15]  * willy-aka-dd (n=iskander@84-245-3-159.dsl.cambrium.nl) has joined #gentoo-trustees
[14:15]  <g2boojum> tsunam: I need your pgp key so I can send you the paypal info.
[14:16]  <tsunam> g2boojum: just need the key id or?
[14:16]  <g2boojum> tsunam: Yep.  Just send me a signed e-mail.
[14:16]  <tsunam> k
[14:17]  * willy-aka-dd (n=iskander@84-245-3-159.dsl.cambrium.nl) has left #gentoo-trustees
[14:18]  <tsunam> g2boojum: email sent
[14:18]  <fmccor> wltjr has been talking to NM already.  I suggest he follow up on that since he has the contacts.
[14:19]  <NeddySeagoon> yep, single points of contact usually work best
[14:19]  <wltjr> NM wants $25 and the paper work they sent + any sigs
[14:20]  <wltjr> g2boojum: wrt to your email, do you plan to send back the paperwork and $25 one sigs are obtained
[14:20]  <g2boojum> wltjr: Interesting, since they told me $70.
[14:20]  <NeddySeagoon> Whose sigs ?  The new trustees or the old ones ?
[14:20]  <wltjr> g2boojum: I assume past trustee sigs
[14:20]  <g2boojum> NeddySeagoon: Old.
[14:20]  <wltjr> g2boojum: more than what you sent in? I am not sure on total, just balance they are waiting in is $25 reinstatement fee
[14:20]  <g2boojum> wltjr: They sent back my check.
[14:21]  <wltjr> g2boojum: ok, then not sure what she was telling me, but I guess in addition to the amount you sent, they wanted $25 for reinstatement
[14:21]  <wltjr> g2boojum: either way, is that a process you plan to follow up on? or would like to forward over the paperwork, and we will seek out sigs, send check, etc
[14:22]  <g2boojum> wltjr: We had signed forms, so I'm not quite sure what the problem was.  I'm assuming that it's because they weren't all original signatures.  Can you check on that?  If that's the case, I'll send new forms on to wolf.
[14:22]  <NeddySeagoon> Will the old trustees still sign ? At least one resigned while the application was in progress
[14:22]  <tsunam> Ah so I need to find a bank ^_^
[14:23]  <wltjr> g2boojum: I was told the forms were processed, and they sent back other forms to be completed, plus needed $25, i was not aware of the forms not being completed properly or signed properly, or the original check being sent back
[14:23]  * tgall_foo returns
[14:23]  <g2boojum> wltjr: Okay, I'll have to check what they sent me, then.  (Which I don't have at work, unfortunately.)
[14:23]  <wltjr> g2boojum: to call in again I need to know all form #'s, they only speak in form #s :)
[14:23]  <NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I think you just picked up clarifying this and seeing it through
[14:24]  <wltjr> g2boojum: what you sent, and what they sent back, etc :)
[14:24]  <wltjr> NeddySeagoon: no problem, but was going to help tsunam with gather info on sponsors and etc
[14:24]  <wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I can work it, but usually something principles will handle :)
[14:24]  <tsunam> wltjr: need to get a bank first currently =|
[14:25]  <wltjr> NeddySeagoon: as you will end up being president on paperwork, and I think filings are done by secretary
[14:25]  <tgall_foo> tsunam, any suggestions as far as financial institutions ?
[14:25]  <NeddySeagoon> wltjr, yeah that too - I think top of the list in reinstatement
[14:25]  <wltjr> NeddySeagoon: but I can keep following through on what needs to be done, etc
[14:25]  <tsunam> tgall_foo: need to do some research
[14:25]  <tgall_foo> wltjr, ah!  gotta pointer to the papers then ?
[14:25]  <tsunam> as we need someone that can deal with international
[14:25]  <wltjr> tsunam: bank will be circular, most banks won't create an account for an entity that does not exist
[14:25]  <wltjr> tgall_foo: no clue on paperwork, you all know basically what I do :)
[14:26]  <tsunam> luckily there's quite a few banks around so..
[14:26]  <tgall_foo> wltjr, heh... well 
[14:26]  * tgall_foo digs out the shovel
[14:26]  <wltjr> tsunam: yes, would be nice to find one, but most are going to want some sort of ID, be it SSN, or EIN, etc
[14:26]  <tsunam> wltjr: yeah
[14:26]  <wltjr> tgall_foo: we need to wait on g2boojum for form #'s, then we can follow up with NM, I can surely make the call
[14:26]  <tsunam> wltjr: doesn't mean I can't talk to them and find who would be best
[14:27]  <NeddySeagoon> wltjr tsunam The entity gets one, when we have the entity again 
[14:27]  * tgall_foo suspects he could get us an account at the bank downtown with no issues ...  but uh ... not sure how good they would be dealing with international
[14:27]  <g2boojum> tsunam: You won't have any luck at all finding someone who can deal w/ the international stuff.  We tried.
[14:27]  <tsunam> g2boojum: If not I'm sure I can find someone then
[14:27]  <tgall_foo> ok .. so priority is getting "entity status" back 
[14:27]  <NeddySeagoon> g2boojum, What 'international stuff' ?
[14:28]  <tgall_foo> yeah ... when we say international service ... what kinds of things do they need to do ?
[14:28]  <tsunam> NeddySeagoon: reimbursing our european devs for stuff...
[14:28]  <g2boojum> tsunam: US is fine.  It's a US corporation.  But the person dealing with the bank will have to be a US citizen.
[14:28]  <wltjr> g2boojum: when you can plz email the form #'s to trustees@g.o, from there I can call NM and see where we are at
[14:28]  <tsunam> g2boojum: so will always have to have one us citizen on trustee's
[14:28]  <tgall_foo> tsunam, well that's just getting them funds in some reasonable way tho isn't it ?
[14:28]  <wltjr> I will report back, but from there would ike others to take any action
[14:28]  <tsunam> tgall_foo: in part
[14:28]  <NeddySeagoon> tsunam, at least one.
[14:29]  <g2boojum> tsunam: No, you need one US citizen who is a Foundation member.  
[14:29]  <g2boojum> tsunam: For practical matters, you use the bank web interface, which doesn't care about citizenship.
[14:29]  <g2boojum> wltjr: Will do.
[14:29]  <tsunam> g2boojum: true
[14:30]  <g2boojum> Also, we use paypal (right now) for most of our funding issues.  It's far from ideal, but it does work well internationally.
[14:30]  <tsunam> g2boojum: yes it does 
[14:31]  <tsunam> but the account can also be closed...so
[14:31]  <tsunam> that really worries me
[14:31]  <tgall_foo> tsunam, umm how do you mean ?
[14:31]  <tsunam> tgall_foo: paypal can freeze accounts
[14:32]  <tsunam> tgall_foo: so our account could in theory be frozen for a long enough time that basically we have no access to any funds there..and its a good portion if I recall
[14:32]  <wltjr> g2boojum: do we need to file a return or anything for 07, and did you all file one for 06 last year?
[14:32]  <g2boojum> tsunam: gpg-encrypted paypal info sent to you.
[14:32]  <tsunam> g2boojum: thank you
[14:33]  <g2boojum> wltjr: We've never filed a return.  My understanding is that it's not required for a c6 w/ our yearly income, but it would be good to verify that fact.
[14:33]  <NeddySeagoon> g2boojum, what did the old trustees count as 'income' ?
[14:33]  <tsunam> we still need to do quarterly financials as part of our deal for c* status
[14:33]  <tsunam> NeddySeagoon: donations of money
[14:33]  <g2boojum> NeddySeagoon: Donations of money.
[14:34]  <tgall_foo> tsunam, that's a good reason to treat it sort of like a Business checkpoint ...  IE trying to keep the balance in a certain range ... never higher or lower
[14:34]  <tsunam> *nods*
[14:34]  <NeddySeagoon> tsunam, what about donations of services, and equipment or are we allowed to discount that 
[14:34]  <tgall_foo> g2boojum, so we're official a c6 right now ?
[14:34]  <tsunam> NeddySeagoon: I need to look at tax laws for those kinds of donations
[14:35]  <g2boojum> tgall_foo: No, better would be to file anyway, then it's not an issue.
[14:35]  <NeddySeagoon> tsunam, ok
[14:35]  <tgall_foo> g2boojum, yes I agree with you there!
[14:35]  <tsunam> tgall_foo: no we're not federally a c anything
[14:35]  <tgall_foo> tho .. we've basically a month to get that done
[14:35]  <fmccor> tsunam, Better to talk with an accountant.
[14:35]  <tsunam> tgall_foo: we never submitted the documents to the irs
[14:36]  <tgall_foo> ok .. so item for the agenda for next week ... c* status ... we should probably make a decision there
[14:36]  <fmccor> tsunam, If you start chasing through the IRS code and regulations, you'll drown. 
[14:36]  <NeddySeagoon> tgall_foo, the decision is for us - we can't have a open vote at the meeting
[14:36]  <tsunam> fmccor: oh I know I've done it before
[14:36]  <wltjr> g2boojum: offhand, in brief do you recall the differences between a c3 and c6 wrt to donations, as in having to keep donations in balance, no excess from one?
[14:37]  <tgall_foo> NeddySeagoon, right ...  just suggesting it is something we need to take action on ...   
[14:37]  <fmccor> tsunam, Case law, too?
[14:37]  <tsunam> wltjr: c3 = civilians can donate and write it off....c6 only business's
[14:37]  <g2boojum> tgall_foo: You can't get c3 status (realistically) w/ the current incorporation.  Our Articles don't really support it.  You'd need to reincorporate.  I highly recommend leaving c3 to an umbrella org, or staying w/ c6.
[14:37]  <tsunam> fmccor: nope, otherwise its been rights to access to property etc
[14:37]  <wltjr> IMHO I think the difference between a c3 and c6 is so moot, and mostly on the donators end, for us it's not worth the effort or time, unless we have a reason or benefit on our end
[14:38]  <tgall_foo> g2boojum, well if it's not filed ... be kinda like starting over ...  but regardless yes I agree ... c6 is probably the right thing ... least from what little I remember on the diff between c3, c6
[14:38]  <wltjr> tsunam: I think that's the wrong way to go, we are better to increase donations and support from businesses rather than individuals
[14:38]  <tsunam> wltjr: businesses can writeoff c3's as well
[14:38]  <tgall_foo> wltjr, well in the end.... we're get money from both I'm sure
[14:39]  <wltjr> tsunam: yes, but I recall there are other things, again the balancing of donations, need to get details on that one way or another
[14:39]  <tgall_foo> tsunam, yes exactly ...
[14:39]  <NeddySeagoon> wltjr, tsunam keep it for later, please g2boojums' time is precious 
[14:39]  <tgall_foo> NeddySeagoon, what other things would you like to cover .. or items in deeper detail that have been discussed ?
[14:40]  <g2boojum> tgall_foo: You miss my point.  The c3 filing takes the Articles of Incorporation into account.  Ours don't have the appropriate language to support a c3.  (These are the Articles that were accepted by NM, so we can't change them.)
[14:40]  <NeddySeagoon> g2boojum, if you were starting out as we are, with the benefit of your hindsight, what would you do differently ?
[14:41]  <wltjr> seems like g2boojum should go ahead and send the physical check to tsunam for when ever he can open a new bank account
[14:41]  <tgall_foo> g2boojum, oooo I see what you're getting at
[14:42]  <NeddySeagoon> wltjr, that will be after we get incorportated, we need  someone to lend Gentoo to $70 or is that in paypal ?
[14:42]  <g2boojum> NeddySeagoon: Regular meetings that are open to the public.  That keeps what's happening visible.  Regular reports of what's being done by those who are doing them.  Dumping all of this on an umbrella org as fast as possible, in case the first two fail anyway.
[14:43]  <NeddySeagoon> g2boojum, thats pretty much what we all plan
[14:43]  <wltjr> g2boojum: so once you provide form #'s I call NM and find out where we are at, do you want us to take over from there? or do you want to still participate in the filing? beyond you signature
[14:44]  <NeddySeagoon> g2boojum, without any finger pointing, what did the last trustees do incorrectly, that we can learn from ?
[14:44]  <g2boojum> wltjr: The signatures should be all that's actually required for reinstatement.  I don't mind sending the check, and somebody can reimburse me.  You folks can handle getting a registered agent, though.
[14:45]  <rane> also, please start using -nfp instead of mailing everything between each other
[14:45]  <tsunam> yep we need to
[14:45]  <wltjr> g2boojum: ok, so I will make sure I include you when I report back from NM, so you can take what ever final action, just wanted to be clear :)
[14:45]  <wltjr> g2boojum: and ty, since it's no longer your duty and you are very busy, much appreciated
[14:45]  <tsunam> ^^^ seconded
[14:45]  <tgall_foo> ^^^^ thirded
[14:46]  <NeddySeagoon> g2boojum, did you learn all the stuff along the way or is it related to your day job ?
[14:46]  <g2boojum> NeddySeagoon: Lack of follow-through.  Read the gentoo-nfp and gentoo-trustee logs, and that will give you an idea.
[14:46]  <fmccor> g2boojum, Thanks a lot for your time.  We all appreciate it.
[14:46]  <wltjr> g2boojum: I have on doubt tsunam will reimburse you and fmccor ASAP, and thanks for covering that out of pocket in mean time
[14:46]  <g2boojum> NeddySeagoon: Along the way.
[14:46]  <wltjr> s/have on/have no
[14:46]  <g2boojum> My pleasure.
[14:46]  <NeddySeagoon> g2boojum, thankd for your time
[14:47]  <g2boojum> wltjr: I'm relying on tsunam reimbursing fmccor w/ the paypal info I sent him.  tsunam: If you run into trouble, /msg me.
[14:47]  <g2boojum> Okay, I have to dash.  Thanks, all.
[14:47]  <wltjr> g2boojum: ok, then if there is enough funds in there ,he could reimburse you the same :)
[14:47]  <NeddySeagoon> thanks
[14:47]  <tsunam> g2boojum: will do
[14:47]  <tsunam> wltjr: there is...
[14:48]  <wltjr> then we are set :)
[14:48]  <NeddySeagoon> That was really useful
[14:48]  <tgall_foo> thanks g2boojum !
[14:48]  <fmccor> Yes, it was.
[14:48]  <tsunam> g2boojum: please send me what I need to send you to reimburse you for what you've done.
[14:48]  <tsunam> fmccor: as well you do the same
[14:48]  <wltjr> someone, maybe tgall_foo being sec :) want to do a quick summary of where things are at for -nfp or maybe pr, but mostly just -nfp, so we are being transparent :)
[14:49]  <fmccor> tsunam, It's attached to KingTaco's bug.
[14:49]  <NeddySeagoon> rane, can we find out who subscribes to -nfp ?
[14:49]  <rane> NeddySeagoon, yes
[14:49]  <tsunam> both of you, if you can give me at least a somewhat detail what its for "reinbursement for filing in new mexico" etc
[14:49]  <wltjr> tgall_foo: not to toss you under a bus, again :)
[14:49]  <tgall_foo> wltjr, that I can and will do
[14:49]  <rane> NeddySeagoon, infra can provide you with such a list
[14:49]  <tsunam> fmccor: send me an email please with the bug # then 
[14:49]  <NeddySeagoon> rane, a number (no names) woulf be good
[14:49]  <tsunam> fmccor: works better for me
[14:49]  <tgall_foo> wltjr, naw ... it's part of the pain I signed up for!
[14:49]  <wltjr> tgall_foo: ty :), and we will all be collectively suffering together :o
[14:49]  <fmccor> Sure.  I'll send you the attachment.
[14:50]  <fmccor> I just need to chase it down.
[14:50]  <rane> there was a page with all lists and number of subscribers
[14:50]  <rane> somewhere