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diff --git a/meeting-logs/kde-qt-projects-meeting-log-20091119.log b/meeting-logs/kde-qt-projects-meeting-log-20091119.log new file mode 100644 index 0000000..7f1c17b --- /dev/null +++ b/meeting-logs/kde-qt-projects-meeting-log-20091119.log @@ -0,0 +1,959 @@ +[20:45:05] <wired> toum toum +[20:46:51] <yngwin> sssh +[20:48:34] *** scarabeus changes topic to 'KDE Team meeting 19.11. 19:00 UTC: Topic 1: Upstream split packages (per kde-scm-interest mail i told you to read)' +[20:52:39] *** Joins: zizo (n=Zizo@host214-182-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) +[20:52:59] *** Parts: zizo (n=Zizo@host214-182-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) +[20:56:35] *** Joins: PSYCHO___ (n=scarabeu@gentoo/developer/scarabeus) +[20:56:35] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o PSYCHO___ +[20:57:05] <wired> darn 3g con +[20:59:38] <wired> so... meeting time? :) +[21:01:16] <yngwin> yup +[21:01:19] <PSYCHO___> indeed +[21:01:27] <PSYCHO___> anyone can record the histroy? +[21:01:38] <PSYCHO___> i cant log, because quassel is not entirely cooperating right now +[21:01:39] * wired logging +[21:01:48] <PSYCHO___> for the log <- scarabeus +[21:02:04] <PSYCHO___> ok so lets start with rollcall +[21:02:05] <wired> even if I seem down my znc/bouncer will keep logging, im on a 3g connection right now (dsl is down) +[21:02:33] *** Joins: spatz (n=spatz@gentoo/developer/spatz) +[21:03:18] *** Joins: ayoy (n=ayoy@gentoo/developer/ayoy) +[21:03:39] *** Joins: mrpouet (n=quassel@gentoo/developer/mrpouet) +[21:03:45] <PSYCHO___> ok so anyone else here? +[21:04:02] *** Joins: wohnout (n=wohnout@88.86.113.238) +[21:04:02] <spatz> me +[21:04:09] <tampakrap> you are so lame +[21:04:11] <dagger> me +[21:04:12] <tampakrap> !herd kde +[21:04:13] <Willikins> (kde) abcd, alexxy, carlo, cryos, dagger, deathwing00, jmbsvicetto, keytoaster, lxnay, mrpouet, patrick, scarabeus, spatz, sping, ssuominen, tampakrap, tgurr, wired +[21:04:13] * wired here +[21:04:13] <mrpouet> and me +[21:04:17] <tampakrap> !herd qt +[21:04:18] <Willikins> (qt) abcd, ayoy, carlo, hwoarang, spatz, tampakrap, wired, yngwin +[21:04:18] <wohnout> PSYCHO___: stop talking and start working +[21:04:19] <tampakrap> roll call +[21:04:22] <yngwin> present +[21:04:22] <PSYCHO___> :D +[21:04:24] <ayoy> I'm here +[21:04:27] <spatz> HERE +[21:04:46] <spatz> only qt people +[21:04:52] <PSYCHO___> spatz: it is required only to say it once +[21:04:53] <DrEeevil> mostly present +[21:04:58] <mrpouet> while(1) printf("HERE\n"); :D +[21:05:03] <spatz> PSYCHO___: here :D +[21:05:04] <mrpouet> okay ==> [ ] +[21:05:34] <wired> some get kde 3.5 killer... errr.... ssuominen here as well! :P +[21:05:43] <PSYCHO___> ok thats not exactly attendance i expected +[21:06:10] <wired> scarabeus: lets wait at least 5 more minutes +[21:06:42] <wired> im also worried that some people might show up in an hour or so... +[21:06:46] <PSYCHO___> ok +[21:06:59] <spatz> because of DST? +[21:07:04] *** Joins: Sput (n=sputnick@quassel/developer/sput) +[21:07:04] <wired> yeah +[21:07:15] <wired> happened last time +[21:07:23] <PSYCHO___> they can use date -u +[21:07:29] <PSYCHO___> so thats not exactly excuse +[21:07:45] <wired> no'ones trying to excuse them +[21:07:47] <yngwin> dst stinks +[21:07:47] <wired> :P +[21:07:56] * spatz uses date -u +[21:09:17] <ayoy> so? +[21:09:28] <wired> so +[21:09:28] <yngwin> agenda? +[21:09:30] <wired> time's up, lets go! +[21:09:42] <PSYCHO___> yngwin: agenda is on -desktop-ml in that mails +[21:09:43] <wired> scarb has first item @ /topic +[21:10:00] <PSYCHO___> i will put them onto the topic as we will be going +[21:10:03] <yngwin> thats scattered +[21:10:22] * wired fixes agenda +[21:12:07] <wired> ok +[21:12:09] <wired> agenda: http://dpaste.com/122485/ +[21:12:30] <yngwin> thanks +[21:12:32] <wired> read it while i clean it up a bit +[21:13:00] <ayoy> what about starting from Qt since KDE has a lot to talk about? +[21:13:52] <PSYCHO___> Ingmar: btw are you around? +[21:14:14] <wired> updated agenda: http://dpaste.com/122486/ +[21:14:36] <wired> ok lets roll +[21:14:51] <wired> 21.15 already +[21:14:58] <ayoy> true +[21:15:03] <yngwin> PSYCHO___: are you presiding? +[21:16:02] <PSYCHO___> ok so lets start +[21:16:06] <PSYCHO___> i was smashing my net a bit +[21:16:48] <wohnout> internet has swine flu +[21:17:26] <PSYCHO___> yeah looks so +[21:17:29] * wired whistles +[21:17:36] <PSYCHO___> !herd kde +[21:17:37] <Willikins> PSYCHO___: (kde) abcd, alexxy, carlo, cryos, dagger, deathwing00, jmbsvicetto, keytoaster, lxnay, mrpouet, patrick, scarabeus, spatz, sping, ssuominen, tampakrap, tgurr, wired +[21:17:38] <mrpouet> aarfff dinner time :( +[21:17:42] <PSYCHO___> so listen up +[21:18:08] <PSYCHO___> anyone of you did read that mail from Ingmar? or you just idled like usual? +[21:18:21] <tampakrap> yes we did +[21:18:22] * spatz read it +[21:18:25] * wired did read it +[21:18:27] <dagger> i did +[21:18:36] <PSYCHO___> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.kde.scm-interest/724 +[21:18:46] <PSYCHO___> there is my response to that mail thread +[21:19:06] <tampakrap> give us a min to read +[21:19:08] <PSYCHO___> it is how i imagine layout that would suit us packagesr best +[21:20:29] *** Joins: j0 (n=quassel@g227216073.adsl.alicedsl.de) +[21:20:29] <PSYCHO___> anyway the question that waits here: "Is anyone willing to work on this?" +[21:21:15] <tampakrap> yes +[21:21:26] <tampakrap> did you get any response from upstream? +[21:21:33] <scarabeus> nope, this mail is last in that thread +[21:22:16] <tampakrap> so we are waiting until upstream responds to that first, or not? +[21:22:39] <scarabeus> actualy nope, i expect someone coordinate with ingmar and prepare full proposal to them +[21:22:55] <scarabeus> because my 6 lines about layout are not exactly "full proposal" +[21:23:00] <wired> upstream surely knew we have split kde +[21:23:11] <tampakrap> yes they do +[21:23:12] <wired> the real question is, do they really want to take this route? +[21:23:40] <scarabeus> well some stated that they would like it, some otherwise +[21:23:48] <tampakrap> i've also seen discussions about splitting in the past going nowhere (two at least) but never mind +[21:24:10] <scarabeus> well this time they are migrating to another SCM so it might have better chance to win :] +[21:24:18] <tampakrap> agreed +[21:24:42] <tampakrap> does Ingmar (ping) have anything else to say in this topic? (apart from what you said in the mail?) +[21:25:19] <scarabeus> well he is aparently not around, so the interested person will have to mail him or irc him at some better time +[21:25:30] <spatz> do binary distros (pretty much everybody) have split packages or monolithic ones? +[21:25:46] <wired> debian has them split +[21:25:52] <wired> after compilation tho +[21:25:56] <Ingmar> hello +[21:26:05] <tampakrap> they compile them in monolithic way and ship them in split way +[21:26:08] <wired> hey Ingmar +[21:26:09] <Ingmar> scarabeus, tampakrap hi +[21:26:18] <tampakrap> hello +[21:26:54] <spatz> doesn't matter how they do it, only whether they do it. if this change forces everybody to split their packages whereas now they have monolithic ones we might face some opposition +[21:26:56] <Ingmar> scarabeus: as you said, i'd like to see upstream move to a buildsystem layout more similar to what xorg has +[21:27:19] <Ingmar> scarabeus: i'm less interested in splitting out the libs, or base, but the debian packager i talked to found that more important than anything else +[21:27:34] <tampakrap> spatz: other distros follow upstream's way, so they will be forced to change it +[21:27:36] <Ingmar> presumably because they can easily split the rest after buil +[21:27:39] <Ingmar> d +[21:27:45] <Ingmar> s/can/can & already do/ +[21:28:21] <scarabeus> well from what we can say the initiative to do the thing will have to cover 2 areas) explaining what to do and how ) showing some example repo done that way +[21:29:04] <Ingmar> yeah +[21:30:04] <scarabeus> so ANY volunteers for this? +[21:30:09] <tampakrap> yes +[21:30:21] <tampakrap> and you? +[21:30:29] <scarabeus> Ingmar: also i would like to see at least one relevant upstream guy acking that we are not just wasting our time +[21:30:30] <Ingmar> I am, obviously :) +[21:31:01] <Ingmar> well, let's start with a proof of concept for one module +[21:31:04] <scarabeus> i myself will try to help +[21:31:48] <Ingmar> i'd put together a proof of cencept first & see what they say on the relevant mailinglists +[21:32:01] <scarabeus> ok that sounds reasonable +[21:32:12] <scarabeus> splitting kdenetwork or kdeedu might be quite easy +[21:32:24] <tampakrap> Ingmar: did you get any affirmative responses from other packagers (and more importantly) by any upstream developer? +[21:32:51] <Ingmar> scarabeus: i was thinking kdenetworok, so yeah :) +[21:33:09] <Ingmar> tampakrap: packagers yes (debian & gentoo, didn't ask anyone else), didn't ask any specific upstream devs +[21:33:20] <tampakrap> ok +[21:33:33] <scarabeus> Ingmar: also we should steal some irc channel to have it covered, i guess we cant chit-chat on g-kde or e-kde since its bit offtopic :] +[21:33:36] <Ingmar> on the kde-scm-interest ml, some were in favor, and some where against +[21:34:16] <scarabeus> any name ideas? :] +[21:34:39] <wired> #kde-split +[21:34:41] <Ingmar> /j #kde-build-split :) +[21:34:48] <scarabeus> ok +[21:35:01] *** Parts: wohnout (n=wohnout@88.86.113.238) +[21:35:23] <Ingmar> anything else on the subject? +[21:35:36] <PSYCHO___> i would say that for meeting we covered it +[21:35:46] <PSYCHO___> i personaly will try to motivate few more people +[21:35:52] <PSYCHO___> but that is non-meeting subject :] +[21:36:03] <tampakrap> Ingmar: apart from kde-scn-interest ml, any other mailing lists you'd like to see us subscribed? +[21:36:55] <Ingmar> kde-buildsystem +[21:37:08] <Ingmar> well, if you have more minions, you know where to send them :) +[21:37:20] <tampakrap> okz +[21:37:41] <tampakrap> ok i think we're done with this for now +[21:37:48] <tampakrap> next topic plz? +[21:37:54] <spatz> first topic plz :) +[21:37:55] <scarabeus> tampakrap: now something qt i would say +[21:38:00] <scarabeus> since there is more qters +[21:38:09] <wired> scarabeus: lets just do the agenda?! +[21:38:27] <scarabeus> as you wish +[21:38:33] <scarabeus> ok documentation +[21:38:41] *** scarabeus changes topic to 'KDE Team meeting 19.11. 19:00 UTC: Topic 1: Documentation' +[21:38:43] <spatz> stabilization first +[21:38:44] *** scarabeus changes topic to 'KDE Team meeting 19.11. 19:00 UTC: Topic 2: Documentation' +[21:38:54] <wired> http://dpaste.com/122486/ +[21:38:56] *** scarabeus changes topic to 'KDE Team meeting 19.11. 19:00 UTC: Topic 1: stabilisation' +[21:39:35] <PSYCHO___> ok so since only samuli is working on it with me has anyone looked on the bug +[21:39:43] <PSYCHO___> or attempted to fix blocker bugs +[21:40:04] <tampakrap> bug # plz? +[21:40:15] * wired hasn't looked at kde 4.3.3 bugs lately, but will +[21:40:25] <spatz> bgu 292455 +[21:40:26] <spatz> bug 292455 +[21:40:28] <Willikins> spatz: https://bugs.gentoo.org/292455 "KDE 4.3.3 stabilization request"; Gentoo Linux, Applications; NEW; ssuominen@g.o:kde@g.o +[21:40:41] <PSYCHO___> bug 2: Documentation +[21:40:43] <PSYCHO___> erm +[21:40:43] <Willikins> PSYCHO___: https://bugs.gentoo.org/2 "How do I attach an ebuild."; Gentoo Linux, Ebuilds; RESO, FIXE; tneidt@fidnet.com:hallski@g.o +[21:40:45] <PSYCHO___> damn this +[21:40:49] <PSYCHO___> as spatz said +[21:40:51] <wired> lolz +[21:41:02] <spatz> lol +[21:41:28] <wired> so 13 bugs +[21:41:47] <wired> i can try to help this weekend +[21:41:50] <PSYCHO___> i want each member of kde team to fix at least 1 +[21:42:28] <tampakrap> 12 bugs, 3 stable req and 1 keyword req +[21:42:29] <PSYCHO___> also i want someone to look on current open bugs +[21:42:40] <PSYCHO___> and decide which should be blocking the stabling +[21:42:50] <PSYCHO___> and on this i want volunteer that will actualy do it +[21:43:05] <tampakrap> and also close the remaining kde3 bugz +[21:43:13] <spatz> we can't really do much with keyword/stable requests +[21:43:43] <PSYCHO___> are still there are normal bugs, and not all bugs are now blocking the stabilisation even if they should +[21:43:47] <PSYCHO___> so who will do it +[21:45:13] <tampakrap> ok i'll do it since noone is interested +[21:45:19] <tampakrap> meaning the bug wrangling +[21:46:11] *** PSYCHO___ changes topic to 'KDE Team meeting 19.11. 19:00 UTC: Topic 2: documentation' +[21:46:12] <PSYCHO___> ok +[21:46:19] <PSYCHO___> next topic +[21:46:41] <PSYCHO___> as i stated +[21:46:54] <PSYCHO___> I want devoted person focusing on updating our documentation with nedy +[21:47:02] <mrpouet> as wired I can try to help this week end (I've an exam tomorrow and I've to finish a project) +[21:47:04] <tampakrap> yes but i disagree with that +[21:47:45] <PSYCHO___> tampakrap: so how would you do the documetnation +[21:47:53] <tampakrap> everyone of us should just realize that documentation is *VERY* important and write two words before a major update or whatever +[21:48:01] <tampakrap> apart from that i have another idea that you may like +[21:48:31] *** Joins: ssuominen (n=ssuomine@gentoo/developer/ssuominen) +[21:48:38] <PSYCHO___> speak up :] +[21:48:43] <tampakrap> since guidexml requires gorg in order to have a fully rendered (human readable) doc +[21:49:15] <tampakrap> i have created an svn repo in my home server that checks out through a hook to a gorg-accessible path +[21:49:22] <tampakrap> so it can be read immediatelly +[21:49:48] <tampakrap> i can give access to the team here to my home server so we can *ALL* (and i mean ALL, even HTs) develop the guide +[21:49:56] <tampakrap> no excuses about permissions etc +[21:50:13] <tampakrap> unless you can provide us such a hook, since you have access in overlays.g.o +[21:50:14] <PSYCHO___> well that was done even on git server remember +[21:50:16] <mrpouet> I agree, so +1 +[21:50:27] <PSYCHO___> i wrote complete guide in overlay as non-dev +[21:50:59] <tampakrap> yes but i'm talking about an immediate co to an xml gentoo.org-like site +[21:51:17] <tampakrap> which makes things easier +[21:51:25] <yngwin> this once again shows the shortcomings of guidexml +[21:51:42] <PSYCHO___> well ok +[21:51:48] <PSYCHO___> tampakrap: you then write up something and enforce it +[21:52:01] <tampakrap> well, i don't agree with that, it shows that noone cares about docs which is sad +[21:52:38] <tampakrap> come on, i just stated something, we can proceed in voting i guess, or go in your way then +[21:53:20] <PSYCHO___> well i am willing to use it, problem is that noone else will edit it, its the same problem as is now +[21:53:36] <wired> we can give it a shot +[21:53:37] <PSYCHO___> we can keep those guides in our public_html folders to see it right-away +[21:53:39] <wired> until next meeting +[21:53:42] <PSYCHO___> but noone edit it anyway +[21:53:50] <tampakrap> that's not the same +[21:53:56] <wired> but we should *also* have someone in charge +[21:54:18] <PSYCHO___> well i wanted someone in charge +[21:54:22] <PSYCHO___> so he can say +[21:54:26] <wired> that someone would check other commits and will _in_time_ get closer to the docs team +[21:54:30] <ABCD> sorry I'm late; I forgot about the time change :( +[21:54:31] <tampakrap> i could be in charge of docs since i am the main editor a while now, but i don't like this idea +[21:54:36] <PSYCHO___> You XY wrote module for AB but did not document it, so do it now. +[21:55:12] <PSYCHO___> so actualy devs introducing something new will be somehow forced to do the docs +[21:55:38] <PSYCHO___> because "anyone does docs and we are happy" simply is NOT working +[21:55:43] <tampakrap> the problem is that we don't update the docs BEFORE the change (minor or major) +[21:56:31] <PSYCHO___> well that would be responsibility of doc master, to point when and what needs to be changed +[21:56:35] <tampakrap> and that won't change by itself, even if we could write the docs in speech-to-text app +[21:57:22] <PSYCHO___> i dont expect the lead to do the work, but delegate to other devs, and if those wont document, i am even willing to remove them from team +[21:57:31] <tampakrap> okay i could do that but i'd expect from the members to respect more the documentation part +[21:58:31] <tampakrap> okay if noone has a problem with that then i'll take charge of this position +[21:58:40] *** Quits: ayoy (n=ayoy@gentoo/developer/ayoy) (Remote closed the connection) +[21:58:52] <wired> tampakrap++ +[21:58:53] *** Joins: ayoy (n=ayoy@cs78245237.pp.htv.fi) +[21:58:53] <PSYCHO___> ok +[21:59:06] <tampakrap> i'll also introduce my system to gentoo-desktop mailing list (i hope devs+HT's are subscribed there) +[21:59:09] <mrpouet> PSYCHO___: huh ? remove them from team ? for that ? (I agree document is an important thing does not matter) ... but blame them instead +[21:59:23] <wired> while we're on the docs subject, note that I'm taking care of Qt docs +[21:59:27] *** PSYCHO___ changes topic to 'KDE Team meeting 19.11. 19:00 UTC: Topic 3: upstream coordination' +[21:59:32] <tampakrap> mrpouet: it is even more important that coding +[21:59:42] <tampakrap> just recall what hapened when we masked kdeprefix +[21:59:46] <mrpouet> I meant it's a bit....excessive +[21:59:51] <PSYCHO___> mrpouet: its seriously important for users +[21:59:56] <PSYCHO___> mrpouet: and we present our work to users +[22:00:00] <mrpouet> tampakrap: I said that I was agree :] +[22:00:02] <PSYCHO___> mrpouet: we need to be 100% covered there +[22:00:22] <mrpouet> (document is important) but the consequence is.... excessive imho +[22:00:41] <PSYCHO___> mrpouet: now noone cared, so i will be really evil until they start to care +[22:00:52] <wired> well +[22:00:55] <wired> i must say +[22:01:04] <wired> docs have always been one huge strength of gentoo +[22:01:08] *** Joins: Pesa (n=Pesa@bluemchen.kde.org) +[22:01:13] <wired> and lately they're degrading fast +[22:01:15] <mrpouet> PSYCHO___: sadistic :P +[22:01:17] <wired> so I like this initiative +[22:01:29] <wired> lets bring them back :) +[22:01:42] <Pesa> hello :) +[22:01:49] <PSYCHO___> ok so lets loko onto the next toppic +[22:01:51] <wired> second late to the party +[22:01:57] <wired> :D +[22:02:01] <PSYCHO___> as i can see some people had really the problem with TZ +[22:02:02] <PSYCHO___> :D +[22:02:05] <spatz> Pesa: hi :) +[22:02:12] <PSYCHO___> Pesa: or you know that you are 1h late? :P +[22:02:17] <Pesa> uhm... +[22:02:20] <Pesa> 1h :O +[22:02:25] <wired> he does not +[22:02:27] <wired> date -u +[22:02:29] <wired> Pesa: ^^ +[22:02:32] <Pesa> damn! timezone :s +[22:02:43] <ABCD> Pesa: I had the same issue :D +[22:02:43] <Pesa> sorry +[22:02:50] <PSYCHO___> ok so lets get to the topic :] +[22:02:56] <wired> you'll read logs, lets go! +[22:03:09] <PSYCHO___> who is willing to track upstream patches, and apply them where required +[22:03:10] <Pesa> yep +[22:03:30] <mrpouet> wired: or do like me, have a linux clock setting up to UTC :D +[22:03:43] <PSYCHO___> this requires also requesting backports from TRUNK to branch on upstream +[22:04:50] <mrpouet> PSYCHO___: you meant a unique guy ? other devs can't import patches from upstream ? +[22:05:03] <mrpouet> (it's ambigous) +[22:05:11] <PSYCHO___> they can, but should coordinate with him +[22:05:14] <mrpouet> (at least for me with my fuc*$*$$* english) +[22:05:16] <PSYCHO___> it can be even more people +[22:05:29] <PSYCHO___> the point is that we would have the patches applied where needed +[22:05:34] <PSYCHO___> in both overlay/tree +[22:05:57] <mrpouet> PSYCHO___: mhhh... personally I could be interested +[22:06:01] <jmbsvicetto> Hello +[22:06:05] <wired> boss! +[22:06:06] <jmbsvicetto> sorry for being late +[22:06:08] <mrpouet> jmbsvicetto: hi +[22:06:09] <mrpouet> :) +[22:06:09] <PSYCHO___> currently we mostly wait on upstream to release new version +[22:06:11] <wired> welcome jmbsvicetto +[22:06:14] <PSYCHO___> hello boss +[22:07:09] <jmbsvicetto> Hi everyone +[22:07:16] <PSYCHO___> ok, come on guys, he is half gnome, at least one more volunteer ;] +[22:07:20] <PSYCHO___> its not that hard job :] +[22:07:30] <tampakrap> i could help but not that much +[22:07:36] <tampakrap> because i am mostly trunk user +[22:08:00] <jmbsvicetto> PSYCHO___: what's up? +[22:08:08] <jmbsvicetto> :( +[22:08:10] <mrpouet> PSYCHO___: it's not an argument :p +[22:08:16] <wired> jmbsvicetto: you want log so far? +[22:08:17] <jmbsvicetto> Am I 1 hour late?? :| +[22:08:18] <PSYCHO___> i want someone to coordinate patches with upstream :] +[22:08:20] <mrpouet> I'm half gnome... and ? :D +[22:08:21] <PSYCHO___> someone dedicated :] +[22:08:22] <wired> jmbsvicetto: you are :P +[22:08:49] * jmbsvicetto failed to read UTC :\ +[22:09:05] <jmbsvicetto> wired: yes, please (logs) +[22:09:30] <wired> jmbsvicetto: ok i'll wgetpaste then hold on +[22:09:49] <tampakrap> PSYCHO___: reavertm and ABCD would be perfect for this i guess +[22:09:49] <PSYCHO___> ABCD: how about you? dont want to do this? :] +[22:10:02] <PSYCHO___> tampakrap: exactly my thinking, but reaver is not around now +[22:10:47] <PSYCHO___> the silence after i ask someone something :D hilarious +[22:11:12] <ABCD> PSYCHO___: that would mean I'd actually have to figure out if commits to trunk are relevant/apply on the 4.3 branch... +[22:11:22] <ABCD> (which means more work :( ) +[22:11:26] <mrpouet> btw, after this topic, I've another one (tiny) +[22:12:00] <tampakrap> trunk after .70 is 90% incompatible with current branch +[22:12:19] <mrpouet> (I'm pretty sure you will agree, but I wanted to talk about that during meeting anyway) +[22:12:28] <wired> jmbsvicetto: http://dpaste.com/122503/ +[22:12:30] <PSYCHO___> ABCD: i mean more watch what bugs they fix, and ask them to patch it for branch too +[22:13:02] <PSYCHO___> something like "i know you fixed crash X for trunk, but the error is in branch too, so could you fix it too so others dont have to wait for 4 months?" +[22:13:05] <jmbsvicetto> wired: thanks +[22:13:28] <PSYCHO___> and second responsibility would be just applying what users add to bugzilla as patches from upstream +[22:13:39] <PSYCHO___> deciding if it is worth or not and so on +[22:13:45] <ABCD> PSYCHO___: so long as someone files a Gentoo bug, and mentions the upstream bug; otherwise I'd never find it :) +[22:13:48] <PSYCHO___> i dont expect that person to review all commits +[22:13:59] <PSYCHO___> ABCD: thats the idea :] +[22:14:09] <PSYCHO___> i dont expect you to browse the upstream one ;] +[22:14:20] <ABCD> in that case, it shouldn't be too difficult +[22:14:58] <PSYCHO___> i know, i just want someone to do it +[22:15:07] <PSYCHO___> so i wont meet 20 days open bug with patch from upstream +[22:15:29] *** PSYCHO___ changes topic to 'KDE Team meeting 19.11. 19:00 UTC: Topic 4: kde3 removal' +[22:15:39] <PSYCHO___> ssuominen: around? +[22:15:50] <PSYCHO___> ok as you might noticed kde3 is going away +[22:15:56] <tampakrap> next topic, ssuominen is in progress of it :P +[22:15:57] <PSYCHO___> its quite flawless i can say +[22:16:04] * tampakrap points at #-commits +[22:16:09] <PSYCHO___> http://dev.gentoo.org/~scarabeus/kde3almostgone.png +[22:16:09] <wired> wave your hands while you still can +[22:16:19] <wired> its going awayyyyyyyyyyyy +[22:16:19] <PSYCHO___> this is what it did to our bugs +[22:16:27] <PSYCHO___> so i want to hear one thing only here +[22:16:34] <PSYCHO___> is something more required on that matter from us? +[22:17:17] <wired> nothing i can think of +[22:17:26] <PSYCHO___> me neither +[22:17:30] <wired> ssuominen is really doing a great job with this +[22:17:31] <PSYCHO___> thats why i wanted ask others +[22:17:40] <ABCD> bye-bye bugs :D +[22:17:57] <PSYCHO___> wontfix closing is fast :P but dont get used to it :D +[22:18:10] <wired> :D +[22:18:20] <wired> lets go to RDEPENDs +[22:18:22] * tampakrap is waiting for kde5 - kde4-removal +[22:18:41] <wired> tampakrap: go ahead and write kde5 then! +[22:18:42] <PSYCHO___> jmbsvicetto: boss its your area +[22:18:52] <PSYCHO___> jmbsvicetto: so elaborate why rdepend use deps are bad +[22:19:30] *** Joins: pontecorvo (n=pontecor@93-183-229-187-dynamic.retail.datagroup.ua) +[22:19:36] <PSYCHO___> okeey, anyone else? :] +[22:19:41] <wired> :P +[22:19:51] <wired> i personally like use flags for rdepends +[22:20:06] <wired> but i'd like to hear why they're bad from those who don't +[22:20:13] * PSYCHO___ dont care, einfo was always enough for me +[22:20:17] <PSYCHO___> wired: well it is poluting the ebuild +[22:20:21] <PSYCHO___> they are not entirely required +[22:20:27] <wired> its not pollution +[22:20:31] <PSYCHO___> so einfo with install X for feature Y +[22:20:42] <wired> its only a few words and its helping you do things pre-emerge +[22:20:50] <PSYCHO___> wired: if you stabilise package, it is polution, if you have to wait on optional rdepend to be stabilised +[22:21:07] <wired> in that case +[22:21:12] <wired> lets work on a per case basis +[22:21:41] <wired> for example, obvious or important rdepends could go in use flags, others in info +[22:21:46] <PSYCHO___> that actualy might work +[22:22:33] <wired> if an rdepend disables/enables half the package's functionality, it should definately have a USE +[22:22:45] <wired> if its a hidden option in the 3rd menu from the right +[22:22:53] <wired> it could live without it :P +[22:22:56] *** Quits: pontecorvo (n=pontecor@93-183-229-187-dynamic.retail.datagroup.ua) (Remote closed the connection) +[22:23:35] <wired> but we *must* make sure we have einfo if we don't have USE +[22:23:36] <wired> make it policy +[22:23:41] <PSYCHO___> thats sound sane +[22:24:05] <tampakrap> agreed +[22:24:12] <tampakrap> add to CODE maybe? +[22:24:15] <wired> yeah +[22:24:27] <wired> oh sorry +[22:24:30] *** Joins: pontecorvo (n=pontecor@93-183-229-187-dynamic.retail.datagroup.ua) +[22:24:30] <wired> yeah, *docs* man +[22:24:40] <PSYCHO___> ok someone can grab it from summary later then +[22:24:41] <wired> :D +[22:24:41] <PSYCHO___> :] +[22:24:41] <jmbsvicetto> sorry, reading backlog +[22:24:51] <tampakrap> i would kick you now, but we are in meeting +[22:25:04] <PSYCHO___> jmbsvicetto: not entirely smart thing to do during continuous meeting :D +[22:25:16] <jmbsvicetto> PSYCHO___: It isn't that rdepend use flags are bad, it's just that there are too many +[22:25:34] <jmbsvicetto> at least it used to be too many -> quanta was the best/worst(?) example +[22:25:53] <tampakrap> yes, because we are following upstream +[22:26:24] <PSYCHO___> jmbsvicetto: well thats why it is per decision basics +[22:26:33] <PSYCHO___> svn plugin can be controled by svn useflag +[22:26:34] <jmbsvicetto> wired / PSYCHO___: I'm not sure they cause so many issues when marking it stable +[22:26:46] <jmbsvicetto> we can always have a use flag masked in a profile +[22:26:50] <PSYCHO___> jmbsvicetto: I DO, i try to stable such package right now +[22:27:05] <PSYCHO___> :P +[22:27:09] <jmbsvicetto> PSYCHO___: I was trying to catch something ;) +[22:27:16] <wired> i think what i said above is good as a rule of thumb +[22:27:43] <wired> devs should decide per case depending on the importance of the deps +[22:27:47] <wired> so we don't end up with 30 RDEPEND USE flags +[22:27:48] <wired> :p +[22:27:54] <jmbsvicetto> I don't have a problem with a case-by-case, but then we'll get a bug for each package that we don't provide a use flag :P +[22:28:18] <tampakrap> wontfix, because that's how we want it +[22:28:34] <tampakrap> or fix, because we did a second thought +[22:28:38] * jmbsvicetto puts user cloak: I want use flag X for installing package Z when I install package Y!!! +[22:28:46] <PSYCHO___> http://www.pastebin.cz/26457 +[22:29:06] <wired> jmbsvicetto: we already have wontfix bugs like that +[22:29:08] <jmbsvicetto> Ingmar: I'll try to poke you later, but I'm also interested in upstream's work on splitting KDE +[22:29:11] <PSYCHO___> its up to us, not user decision +[22:29:16] <jmbsvicetto> yes, I know +[22:30:28] <PSYCHO___> ok, i guess we covered our last point +[22:30:34] <PSYCHO___> so lets move to qt issues :] +[22:30:37] <wired> w8 +[22:30:39] <tampakrap> wait plz +[22:30:49] <wired> mrpouet has sth to add +[22:31:04] <PSYCHO___> hm? +[22:31:11] <wired> or had :P +[22:31:15] <wired> mrpouet: u here? +[22:31:21] <tampakrap> i have to say something too +[22:31:36] <PSYCHO___> tampakrap: then speak :] +[22:31:38] <wired> go ahead +[22:31:42] <tampakrap> i'll start since mrpouet is somewhere else :P +[22:32:13] <tampakrap> recently i fixed a bunch of live ebuilds, reported issues, patches etc +[22:33:07] <tampakrap> since i recompile kde and qt live packages very frequently, i would like your permission to create a doc which will track live ebuilds' upstream and downstream bugs, etc +[22:33:15] <tampakrap> which are broken and need love etc +[22:33:43] <tampakrap> if you think that a doc is not appropriate i could do a page in gentoo-wiki for example +[22:34:11] <PSYCHO___> tampakrap: go ahead, try to motivate some non-team people to help you +[22:34:18] <PSYCHO___> tampakrap: so you can recruit your minions ;P +[22:34:30] <wired> on that note, we could create a script +[22:34:31] <tampakrap> no way, you are the ht lead +[22:34:34] <wired> that picks up your daily rebuild +[22:34:44] <wired> and generates a webpage of what failed and what worked +[22:34:45] <wired> :p +[22:34:52] <PSYCHO___> you mean something like dirk-dashboard? +[22:34:52] <ayoy> ;] +[22:34:57] <ayoy> contonuous integration +[22:34:57] <PSYCHO___> or something like bump-tool? +[22:35:07] <PSYCHO___> http://dev.gentoo.org/~scarabeus/vystup.html +[22:35:08] <spatz> something like buildbot? +[22:35:27] <tampakrap> a script that takes logs and uploads them somewhere +[22:35:29] <wired> something like that PSYCHO___ +[22:35:45] <wired> like the thing gnomies have +[22:35:49] <PSYCHO___> tampakrap: well do it if you want it +[22:35:55] <wired> i can create a custom script if we don't have something ready +[22:36:03] <tampakrap> we don't +[22:36:05] <tampakrap> ok ok +[22:36:09] <tampakrap> covered +[22:36:11] <wired> just give me the logs :P +[22:36:28] <PSYCHO___> ok so lets moove to the qt since mrpouet is not around +[22:36:36] <tampakrap> wait a minute +[22:36:47] <tampakrap> it seems not covered +[22:37:06] <tampakrap> wired: the script would be usuable if it could automatically take the build.logs from the failed packages +[22:37:11] <tampakrap> and upload them somewhere +[22:37:33] <PSYCHO___> tampakrap: its not entirely meeting material, and we have meeting already for 1h30minutes... just discuss this with wired on -kde afterwards :] +[22:37:33] <wired> yeah +[22:37:37] <tampakrap> and we can add a comment next to each one of them, like upstream bug or whatever +[22:37:39] <wired> we'll talk about it off list +[22:37:43] <wired> off meeting* +[22:37:43] <tampakrap> ok ok +[22:37:51] *** PSYCHO___ changes topic to 'KDE Team meeting 19.11. 19:00 UTC: Topic QT 1: qt mono package' +[22:37:58] <ayoy> !herd qt +[22:38:00] <Willikins> (qt) abcd, ayoy, carlo, hwoarang, spatz, tampakrap, wired, yngwin +[22:38:14] <tampakrap> surprisingly i am here +[22:38:21] <wired> one of our biggest issues +[22:38:26] <wired> with the split ebuilds +[22:38:29] <wired> the USE flag madness +[22:38:31] <wired> is now solved +[22:38:38] <wired> because anything < 4.5.3 is off the tree +[22:38:41] <ayoy> \ö/ +[22:38:41] <tampakrap> lol, when? +[22:38:54] <yngwin> i still see people struggling with it +[22:39:03] <ayoy> because they are updating to 4.5.3, not? +[22:39:11] <yngwin> yes +[22:39:12] <ABCD> yay +[22:39:19] <ayoy> once they update, we're done with this shit +[22:39:29] <wired> so its solved from our side +[22:39:50] <wired> the only thing left is the Qt update blocker madness +[22:40:01] <wired> but i think people are beginning to understand that b blocks are autosolvable +[22:40:05] <yngwin> but we'll still have to support latecomers for a long time +[22:40:28] <spatz> we'll have to support latecomers no matter what +[22:40:39] <wired> yngwin: agreed, but that doesn't really change anything if we merge splits into a monolithic +[22:40:45] <wired> s/anything// +[22:41:05] <yngwin> it would, but anyway +[22:41:28] <wired> i mean, they'd still have to do some migration work +[22:41:38] <ayoy> like update with no blockers +[22:41:40] <ayoy> :) +[22:42:06] <yngwin> yes, but that would be clearer than the current mess with blockers and useflags - portage is just not giving very clear feedback to users +[22:42:20] <wired> i agree with the feedback thing +[22:42:45] <wired> but with the useflags issue _mostly_ gone, do you feel the blockers are good enough a reason to change things? +[22:42:52] <ABCD> well, we could say that that's a portage bug ;) +[22:43:09] <yngwin> it is mostly a portage problem yes +[22:43:16] <spatz> xorg packages, for example, don't have blockers for maximum versions, only minimal, so users see less blockers +[22:43:18] <PSYCHO___> well portage should shut up about autosolved blocks +[22:43:20] <yngwin> but we'll have to work with portage +[22:43:29] <PSYCHO___> i dont understand why it writes them out +[22:43:36] <spatz> qt has both maximum and minimum version blockers and that's creating weird issues +[22:43:39] <PSYCHO___> most users get only confused +[22:43:43] <wired> imo the right way to do this is fix portage +[22:43:58] <wired> i really want to get into portage development but i just can't these days +[22:44:01] *** Joins: tampakrap_ (n=tampakra@ppp-94-66-145-248.home.otenet.gr) +[22:44:01] <Sput> why do we need maximum version blockers? +[22:44:04] <wired> i am considering doing so in the future +[22:44:16] <Sput> downgrading Qt isn't really supported anyway +[22:44:31] <wired> Sput: you can't mix Qt versions +[22:44:35] <spatz> Sput: to make sure user has exactly the same version of all packages +[22:44:35] <ayoy> Sput: mixing versions anyhow is neither +[22:44:36] <wired> period :P +[22:44:46] <Pesa> wired: i'd like to too ;) +[22:44:51] <Sput> yes, but the common case is upgrade, yes? +[22:45:01] <spatz> again, see xorg use case +[22:45:01] <yngwin> to my mind this shows why we need monolithic +[22:45:06] <PSYCHO___> something like MDEPEND +[22:45:07] <spatz> downgrading doesn't usually work either +[22:45:08] <Sput> so minimum blockers would be enough to force all qt packages be updated if one is updated +[22:45:12] <PSYCHO___> if package is around then require this version +[22:45:16] <PSYCHO___> otherwise do not care +[22:45:18] <PSYCHO___> so called +[22:45:22] <PSYCHO___> MAGIC DEPENDENCY +[22:45:29] <ayoy> :) +[22:45:38] <spatz> with only minimum blocks users won't get blockers +[22:45:49] <PSYCHO___> come on its exactly what you want, that might be actualy easy to do with current code +[22:45:55] <PSYCHO___> it will just need new eapi :/ +[22:46:24] <wired> PSYCHO___: current code can't do it, i've tried to express it with complex bash but it still shells out blockers +[22:46:27] <wired> we need new depend type +[22:46:30] <yngwin> anyway, we said we'd discuss it on ML, which as far as i can see has not happened +[22:46:43] <wired> it did not +[22:46:44] <PSYCHO___> wired: i said so, new depend type MDEPEND +[22:46:49] <wired> PSYCHO___++ +[22:46:57] <yngwin> who wants to start the ML discussion? +[22:46:58] <PSYCHO___> and it is easy to adjust +[22:47:00] <PSYCHO___> the portage code +[22:47:04] <PSYCHO___> about this +[22:47:13] <wired> yngwin: I can +[22:47:19] <yngwin> great +[22:47:22] <yngwin> next topic +[22:47:35] <wired> status of qt-tng +[22:47:42] *** PSYCHO___ changes topic to 'KDE Team meeting 19.11. 19:00 UTC: Topic QT 2: Status of new qt-tng.eclass' +[22:47:56] <ayoy> I've been reviewing it for last 1,5 hours +[22:47:59] <yngwin> hwoarang said he couldnt continue with this because of circumstances +[22:48:10] <yngwin> i think it's ready +[22:48:12] <wired> yes so are we happy with it enough to post it in -dev? +[22:48:26] <ayoy> provided that we remove prepare_translations? +[22:48:45] <ayoy> this one seems not so handy +[22:48:52] <ayoy> tries to address a common case +[22:48:58] <yngwin> let's prepare the eclass for qt@ before sending it off to -dev +[22:48:59] <ayoy> but the common case doesn't really exist +[22:49:06] <Pesa> except there isn't a common case :) +[22:49:14] <wired> so lets remove that +[22:49:21] <ayoy> I will +[22:49:23] <yngwin> yes, we already said that +[22:49:38] <Pesa> ok +[22:49:47] <yngwin> ok, ayoy, can you finalize the eclass and send it to qt@ ? +[22:49:47] <ayoy> hey, btw +[22:49:48] *** Quits: tampakrap (n=tuxicity@gentoo/developer/tampakrap) (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) +[22:49:56] <ayoy> yngwin: yes I can +[22:50:15] <wired> great +[22:50:18] <yngwin> then we can all have a look and comment if needed, then send it to -dev +[22:50:21] <ayoy> are we all happy with the eclass name? +[22:50:26] * ayoy is not +[22:50:29] <yngwin> not really +[22:50:36] <wired> ayoy: i talked with picard the other day, he said he liked it +[22:50:36] <PSYCHO___> you already voted on it, but didnt decide anything +[22:50:39] <Pesa> i am not but i don't really care +[22:50:41] <ayoy> qt4-edge kicks testicals very hard, I like it +[22:50:51] <wired> not -edge +[22:50:54] <wired> we need that for overlay +[22:51:03] <yngwin> qt4v2 +[22:51:03] <wired> else we'll have to start overriding and crap +[22:51:11] <ayoy> wired: you mean that qt4-edge will stay in overlay? +[22:51:17] <yngwin> we need eclass versioning dammit +[22:51:26] <Pesa> yngwin++ +[22:51:31] <wired> ayoy: yes, we need to keep developing there, don't we? :P +[22:51:37] <ayoy> we do +[22:51:43] <wired> yngwin: indeed +[22:51:44] <yngwin> indeed, wired is right +[22:51:53] <spatz> I propose qt4-next :/ +[22:51:58] <PSYCHO___> qt42morow +[22:51:58] <ayoy> better :) +[22:52:03] <wired> qt4-v2 +[22:52:08] <PSYCHO___> read it ^ +[22:52:10] <ayoy> qt4evar +[22:52:11] <PSYCHO___> in english +[22:52:16] <wired> PSYCHO___: we did :P +[22:52:33] <PSYCHO___> :] +[22:52:41] <PSYCHO___> qt4-blesmrt +[22:52:42] <PSYCHO___> :] +[22:52:43] <wired> qt4-r2 +[22:52:45] <spatz> ok, let's not waste time on bikesheds +[22:52:50] <wired> ^^ in the gentoo spirit +[22:52:54] <spatz> lol +[22:52:56] <ayoy> :) +[22:53:09] <yngwin> i like that, wired +[22:53:10] <spatz> this meeting is already taking 2 hours :/ +[22:53:16] <ayoy> let's move on +[22:53:17] * spatz likes it too +[22:53:23] <wired> :D +[22:53:25] * ayoy too +[22:53:25] <PSYCHO___> so name unchanged +[22:53:27] <PSYCHO___> ? +[22:53:28] <yngwin> ok, qt4-r2.eclass +[22:53:30] <ayoy> no, changed +[22:53:41] <yngwin> next topic +[22:53:46] <wired> w00t, we got rid of startrek +[22:53:47] <wired> ok 3. +[22:53:50] <wired> #gentoo-qt +[22:53:52] <wired> do we want it? +[22:53:58] <tampakrap_> plz no +[22:54:01] <spatz> no +[22:54:02] <yngwin> i dont see the need +[22:54:02] *** PSYCHO___ changes topic to 'KDE Team meeting 19.11. 19:00 UTC: Topic QT 3: #gentoo-qt' +[22:54:05] <ayoy> I'd say we rather need a separate meeting +[22:54:09] <ayoy> than a separate channel +[22:54:11] <wired> its already registered and when i was bored I added permissions +[22:54:18] <wired> so if you ever feel like it +[22:54:18] <wired> :) +[22:54:24] <tampakrap_> ok, but plz no +[22:54:26] <tampakrap_> :) +[22:54:47] <wired> i think -kde is fine as well, but its there if we need it +[22:54:50] <spatz> ok, so we all agree on 'no' +[22:54:57] <tampakrap_> neeeext +[22:55:01] <yngwin> let's keep it +[22:55:01] <spatz> ok, we have a backup for a nuclear war or sth +[22:55:06] *** PSYCHO___ changes topic to 'KDE Team meeting 19.11. 19:00 UTC: Topic QT 4: einfo mess' +[22:55:12] <wired> 4. +[22:55:13] <yngwin> but we'll continue to use -kde for the time being +[22:55:18] <spatz> it was already cleared out yesterday +[22:55:23] <spatz> by wired +[22:55:23] <wired> btw DONT RUSH +[22:55:32] <wired> :D +[22:55:37] <spatz> the messages only show for qt-core now +[22:55:37] <ayoy> qt-core only +[22:55:37] <ayoy> ? +[22:55:38] <spatz> so I think it's better +[22:55:41] <ayoy> awesome +[22:55:41] <tampakrap_> tommy[d] complaint many times about this warning overload +[22:55:48] <wired> tampakrap_: i already fixed it +[22:55:51] <wired> confined it to qt-core +[22:55:54] <yngwin> yes, change was committed yesterday +[22:55:56] <ayoy> ok, I love it +[22:56:02] <tampakrap_> cool +[22:56:05] <spatz> we can (and should) shorten the text, but it's much less spam now +[22:56:10] <wired> yeah +[22:56:10] <yngwin> if any more cutting is needed, let us know +[22:56:15] <wired> like 11 times less +[22:56:18] <spatz> lol +[22:56:19] <ayoy> :) +[22:56:21] <spatz> great, so next +[22:56:24] <wired> 5. +[22:56:25] <wired> gitorious +[22:56:30] <PSYCHO___> wait +[22:56:32] <yngwin> we could look at the text again +[22:56:38] <yngwin> see if it can be shortened +[22:56:40] <spatz> only downside is no commit bot coolness +[22:57:02] <wired> yngwin: i can do it +[22:57:09] <yngwin> i also like the suggestion to put it in out docs and refer in einfo to our docs page +[22:57:34] <yngwin> wired: ok, do it and let us know what you come up with +[22:57:34] <wired> thats not bad either +[22:57:38] <wired> k +[22:57:41] <wired> will mail qt@ +[22:57:47] <tampakrap_> i'll do the docs btw +[22:57:48] <spatz> oooh I like that +[22:57:53] <yngwin> alright +[22:57:53] <ayoy> ok then +[22:57:55] <spatz> no one thought otherwise :) +[22:57:57] <ayoy> why not github? +[22:58:04] <yngwin> next topic +[22:58:11] <wired> tampakrap_: i'll do the Qt docs +[22:58:13] <spatz> many ppl don't have github accounts but want overlay access +[22:58:17] <wired> keep it split so we actually do something +[22:58:24] <ayoy> they can create +[22:58:25] <ayoy> or die +[22:58:37] <spatz> and gitorious is the new black, or something +[22:58:45] <ayoy> oh +[22:58:48] * ayoy checks +[22:58:53] <yngwin> i like gitorious because you an have more people administer the repo +[22:59:03] <yngwin> can* +[22:59:06] <spatz> it's better in most ways, except cia.vc integration +[22:59:12] <spatz> I like the bot we have in #-kde +[22:59:13] <wired> the only real disadvantage is cia +[22:59:17] <wired> do we care enough? +[22:59:17] <yngwin> i am now the bus factor for github +[22:59:18] <ayoy> yngwin: good point +[22:59:38] <tampakrap_> no +[22:59:40] <wired> i mean kde doesn't have cia either, big deal +[22:59:41] <ayoy> I do only a bit +[22:59:58] <yngwin> not really, cia bot is nice, but there are other ways +[23:00:04] <wired> i like the cia wow factor as well, but if gitorious is better/more reliable/more popular +[23:00:09] <ayoy> like capslock +[23:00:11] <tampakrap_> my commit number got too high because of qting-edge, i almost lost my gentoo/slacker cloak +[23:00:13] <wired> lets go there and switch the hooks to keep github in sync +[23:00:25] <ayoy> hey hey +[23:00:26] <ayoy> btw +[23:00:26] <ayoy> ! +[23:00:36] <ayoy> if we switch to gitorious +[23:00:41] <ayoy> we still have github as a backup, no? +[23:00:47] <ayoy> we still have the bot +[23:00:50] <ayoy> period. +[23:00:54] <wired> right +[23:00:56] <tampakrap_> touche +[23:00:58] <wired> ayoy++ +[23:00:58] <Pesa> heh right +[23:01:00] <spatz> new ppl who only have gitorious access won't be able to push to github +[23:01:02] <ayoy> lol +[23:01:02] <ayoy> :) +[23:01:10] <wired> spatz: no issues, we'll push for them +[23:01:10] <spatz> so not really +[23:01:13] <PSYCHO___> so vote for it +[23:01:22] <yngwin> yes, vote +[23:01:27] <PSYCHO___> as in topic it is named as voting for gitorious as main repo +[23:01:28] <tampakrap_> gitorious +[23:01:30] <wired> +1 gitorious +[23:01:40] <spatz> ok then, +1 gitorious +[23:01:46] <yngwin> gitorious +[23:01:46] <ayoy> gitorious + github as backup +[23:01:54] * spatz switches url order in .git/config +[23:02:17] <yngwin> ABCD? +[23:02:29] <ABCD> abstain +[23:02:33] <yngwin> ok +[23:02:37] <tampakrap_> btw can we do the same trick with kde-testing to get cia bot there as well? +[23:02:53] <Pesa> lol +[23:03:00] <wired> only if people actually push to gitorious as well +[23:03:06] <wired> better poke PSYCHO___ to fix it +[23:03:07] <wired> :p +[23:03:08] <spatz> you mean github +[23:03:12] <wired> yeah +[23:03:13] <wired> :D +[23:03:22] <spatz> if git.o.g.o has cia integration you don't have to +[23:03:23] <PSYCHO___> ok last topic +[23:03:25] <wired> s/gitorious/github/ +[23:03:26] <yngwin> so we need to make an announcement about that, to push to gitorious as main repo, and change layman url +[23:04:05] <yngwin> any volunteers? +[23:04:12] <wired> announcement in like -dev? qt2? +[23:04:13] <wired> qt@? +[23:04:21] <yngwin> qt@ +[23:04:27] <wired> i'll do it +[23:04:30] <ayoy> no big deal :) +[23:05:08] <wired> im Qt PR +[23:05:09] <wired> :p +[23:05:09] <PSYCHO___> last topic: removal of changelogs from overlay +[23:05:15] <wired> that one was mine +[23:05:17] <yngwin> also proj page +[23:05:39] <wired> lets remove them, they keep breaking my nerves, git logs are enough! +[23:05:48] <yngwin> NO +[23:05:48] <spatz> wired++ +[23:05:58] <wired> seriously +[23:06:02] <ayoy> why not? +[23:06:05] <wired> i can't stand them, overlays shouldnt have changelogs +[23:06:10] <wired> duplicate info +[23:06:15] <yngwin> qting-edge is also a training area for new recruits / devs-to-be +[23:06:35] <wired> yngwin: most overlays are +[23:06:37] <yngwin> it's good practice to get used to using echangelog +[23:06:43] <ayoy> yngwin++ +[23:06:44] <wired> yngwin: repoman will scream anyway +[23:06:53] <PSYCHO___> repoman wont scream +[23:06:57] <ayoy> it doesn't +[23:06:58] <spatz> I think that's the least of the recruit's problems +[23:07:01] <yngwin> yes, that is why my policy is to use echangelog in all overlays +[23:07:02] <wired> spatz++ +[23:07:07] <spatz> it doesn't scream, it warns +[23:07:10] *** Quits: nirbheek (n=nirbheek@gentoo/developer/nirbheek) ("Gone.") +[23:07:10] <PSYCHO___> repoman ignores changelogs for distributed scms +[23:07:14] <PSYCHO___> spatz: ^ +[23:07:17] <wired> PSYCHO___: i meant in cvs +[23:07:20] <spatz> recruits should be taught to read repoman's warnings :) +[23:07:22] <PSYCHO___> spatz: i wrote the code to portage, so i know about its behaviour +[23:07:32] <spatz> I mean when they commit to the tree +[23:07:36] <yngwin> as long as portage is using cvs and echangelog, i want us to use it in the overlay +[23:07:47] <wired> i really don't like it, i forget it because this is the only overlay we use changelogs +[23:07:47] <wired> from the ones i use +[23:07:51] <yngwin> echangelog that is, not cs :p +[23:07:55] <yngwin> cvs* +[23:07:59] <spatz> lol +[23:08:15] <spatz> can we vote or do you veto? +[23:08:19] <tampakrap_> for the record i agree with wired +[23:08:21] <PSYCHO___> :D +[23:08:27] <wired> i'd like a vote for this +[23:08:28] <wired> :) +[23:08:40] <yngwin> also, for users who checkout the overlay, they may expect changelogs +[23:08:45] <yngwin> i would, anyway +[23:08:56] <spatz> no overlay has changelogs, so why would they? +[23:08:57] *** Quits: krakonos (n=krakonos@kangaroo.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) (Client Quit) +[23:09:07] <ayoy> I'm for changelogs in the overlay +[23:09:09] <wired> yngwin: well users are educated to git log or visit gitweb these days, thanks to kde-testing :P +[23:09:14] <yngwin> because portage does +[23:09:47] <wired> besides, git log is blazingly fast, its not like you have to cvs log :p +[23:10:02] <ayoy> echangelog in git is also fast +[23:10:06] <ayoy> ;] +[23:10:07] <yngwin> most users dont know how to handle git +[23:10:20] <PSYCHO___> plz vote and end, i want to go to shower +[23:10:23] <wired> ayoy: sure, but when you don't echangelog in most overlays +[23:10:24] <spatz> they can use the gitorious web-ui +[23:10:27] <wired> you tend to forget +[23:10:37] <ayoy> wired: then add echangelogs to other overlays +[23:10:39] <yngwin> PSYCHO___: s/vote/veto/ +[23:10:42] <ayoy> :) +[23:10:56] <wired> meh +[23:11:02] <PSYCHO___> yngwin: me dont care you are no longer subproject and you are lead, so it is up to you +[23:11:17] <PSYCHO___> yngwin: 2 months ago i could veto your veto but now it is entirely up to you :D +[23:11:22] <wired> lol +[23:11:24] <ayoy> lol :D +[23:11:35] <yngwin> i want better arguments than "I'm too lazy" +[23:11:36] <tampakrap_> yngwin: we hate you +[23:11:44] <wired> yngwin: its not im lazy +[23:11:48] <yngwin> tampakrap_: i'm honoured +[23:11:53] <tampakrap_> it's that i am lazy +[23:11:54] <PSYCHO___> yngwin: fucked up 3way merge strategy +[23:11:58] <wired> its dup info, no real advantages :) +[23:12:03] <wired> anyway +[23:12:12] <PSYCHO___> we dropped it because it breaks merges a lot +[23:12:17] <spatz> it was invented to overcome VCS shortcomings we no longer have +[23:12:27] <ayoy> who merges anything in qting-edge? +[23:12:29] <yngwin> we still have in portage +[23:12:34] <ayoy> I've seen it once maybe +[23:12:39] <wired> yngwin: portage is cvs, we need it there +[23:12:45] <tampakrap_> yes, better spend the echangelog time to help portage to move to git i'd say :P +[23:12:45] <spatz> because it still has to deal with those shortcomings - we don't +[23:13:09] <spatz> when the tree moves to git the changelogs would probably be thrown out the window +[23:13:11] <yngwin> wired: yes, and i want the overlay to be similar +[23:13:25] <ayoy> then we will remove them as well +[23:13:27] <ayoy> ofc.... +[23:13:29] * PSYCHO___ throws the orange duck from one hand to another and looks on the clock +[23:13:32] <tampakrap_> still, cvs commit progress is *very* different from git commit process +[23:13:38] <spatz> PSYCHO___: it's yellow! +[23:13:46] <PSYCHO___> not this one +[23:13:49] <wired> yngwin: if recruits can't handle that difference between qting-edge and cvs, then they shouldn't be devs, really :P +[23:13:51] <ayoy> it's Czech duck +[23:14:10] <yngwin> hmm, there is something to that +[23:14:13] <spatz> so it has weird dots and lines all over and above it? +[23:14:58] <tampakrap_> ok i have to go, don't care that much about this subject :P +[23:15:01] <spatz> ok, let's give yngwin time to think about this and wrap this party up +[23:15:09] <PSYCHO___> yngwin: http://dev.gentoo.org/~scarabeus/0911-meeting_summary.txt fix the FIXME parts, me blobs to shower +[23:15:10] <yngwin> yes, ok +[23:15:10] <wired> alright +[23:15:15] <wired> yngwin: its up to you, next meeting +[23:15:17] <ayoy> let's continue this topic on ML! :D +[23:15:19] <ayoy> yay! +[23:15:31] <wired> wait! +[23:15:35] <wired> you all FREEZE! +[23:15:40] <tampakrap_> wut? +[23:15:45] <yngwin> i'll think about it, and we can discuss it again later, ok? +[23:15:48] <wired> lets discuss our project page a bit +[23:15:50] <wired> yngwin: OK +[23:15:50] <spatz> don't forget do update your qting-edge/.git/config to new pushurls :D +[23:15:52] * PSYCHO___ does the squeek sound with his duck +[23:16:05] <ayoy> spatz: send a mail to qt@ about it +[23:16:07] <yngwin> can somebody shut up that PSYCHO? +[23:16:10] <wired> lol +[23:16:14] <PSYCHO___> he said freeze +[23:16:29] <yngwin> if you need to go, you can go +[23:16:44] <wired> i wrote up a first version, but I'd like feedback from all of you +[23:16:49] <wired> stuff that should be there +[23:16:51] <wired> stuff that should go +[23:17:06] <spatz> we can continue discussing this after the meeting, we don't need to hold everybody up +[23:17:11] <yngwin> i do want to ask qt devs if thet would prefer a separate meeting, as these combined meetings take long +[23:17:19] <ayoy> ++ +[23:17:19] <tampakrap_> no +[23:17:22] <ayoy> YES +[23:17:34] <wired> if +[23:17:38] <wired> we keep it to 2-3 hours combined +[23:17:40] <wired> im fine +[23:17:44] <tampakrap_> issues concern both teams usually +[23:17:45] <ayoy> a pity is that half of the team will have just 2 meetings +[23:17:47] <ayoy> kde and qt one +[23:18:06] <wired> tampakrap++ +[23:18:28] <yngwin> i'll write a mail to kde@ and qt@ and we can discuss it then +[23:18:38] <tampakrap_> or just desktop +[23:18:40] <ayoy> if we started at 18 UTC or started with Qt stuff I'd be fine +[23:18:42] <mrpouet> btw, okay to import my patch in phonon ? :] +[23:18:43] <tampakrap_> desktop mailing list +[23:18:54] <wired> mrpouet: good morning! +[23:19:11] <yngwin> i'm not sure everyone is on desktop ml +[23:19:11] *** Quits: ayoy (n=ayoy@gentoo/developer/ayoy) (Remote closed the connection) +[23:19:19] <tampakrap_> should be +[23:19:19] <mrpouet> wired: did you smoke something ? +[23:19:24] *** Joins: ayoy (n=ayoy@cs78245237.pp.htv.fi) +[23:19:30] <wired> mrpouet: lol no i don't smoke ;) +[23:19:45] <mrpouet> :p +[23:19:48] <tampakrap_> have to go bye +[23:19:50] <ayoy> :/ +[23:19:52] <ayoy> bai +[23:19:57] <yngwin> bye tampakrap_ +[23:20:00] <wired> cya +[23:20:04] *** Quits: tampakrap_ (n=tampakra@gentoo/developer/tampakrap) (Remote closed the connection) +[23:20:07] <mrpouet> wired: what your sentence has to do with my question ? :D +[23:20:07] <yngwin> we're wrapping up anyway +[23:20:31] <yngwin> wired: good job on the project page, I'm sure there will be improvements/additions over time +[23:20:33] <wired> mrpouet: i asked you to talk about your issue a while back but you didn't respond :P +[23:20:57] * mrpouet has a girl-friend :( +[23:21:01] <wired> yngwin: indeed. thanks +[23:21:11] <mrpouet> a girl friend is boring you know.. :D +[23:21:17] <wired> mrpouet: so do I, but now its sacred... errr meeting time! +[23:21:28] <ayoy> lol +[23:21:43] <mrpouet> wired: aaarfff I know !! :( +[23:22:28] <wired> i think we can wrap this up now +[23:22:28] <wired> :p +[23:22:38] <yngwin> ok, last call +[23:22:40] <wired> mrpouet: tell em about your patch +[23:22:45] <wired> before they all leave +[23:22:45] <wired> :p +[23:22:51] * mrpouet setups a sighandler for SIGGIRL-FRIEND +[23:23:02] <ayoy> ... +[23:23:09] <mrpouet> ohhh better +[23:23:15] <mrpouet> ignore signal :D +[23:23:23] <mrpouet> ==> [ ] +[23:23:25] <mrpouet> ^^ +[23:23:27] <yngwin> mrpouet: you have 2 minutes +[23:23:58] <wired> 30s gone +[23:24:07] <mrpouet> okay so, I wrote a patch in order to add a support for external subtitles (files) +[23:24:07] <ayoy> lalala +[23:24:39] <mrpouet> it works just fine, sandsmark approved it (on upstream) +[23:24:56] <mrpouet> it would be nice then to patch kaffeine&dragon +[23:25:10] <mrpouet> but before we need to import my patch in phonon +[23:25:24] <mrpouet> see https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=213710 +[23:25:31] <yngwin> m-s/phonon or qt-phonon or both? +[23:25:33] <mrpouet> for technical details +[23:25:40] <mrpouet> yngwin: m-s/phonon +[23:25:46] <yngwin> ok +[23:26:35] <mrpouet> currently we can : auto-detect patch (recursively in the media directory), load a patch manually, setting up the subtitle encoding +[23:26:47] <mrpouet> rrraaahhh !!!! fucking shit !!! +[23:26:57] <mrpouet> auto-detect subs * +[23:27:03] <wired> lol +[23:27:06] <mrpouet> s/patch/subs +[23:27:08] <mrpouet> o_O +[23:27:15] * mrpouet stabs himself +[23:27:39] <wired> you're putting quite a show +[23:27:47] <wired> :D +[23:27:50] <mrpouet> :D +[23:27:51] <yngwin> looks to me the patch has merit, but i'm not kde herd, and i think PSYCHO___ has left +[23:28:02] <wired> the patch work +[23:28:02] <wired> s +[23:28:08] <wired> pretty well +[23:28:12] <mrpouet> :) +[23:28:12] * wired tested it +[23:28:30] <yngwin> so i suggest you open a bug and poke kde team +[23:29:34] <mrpouet> there is already a bug :) +[23:29:36] <yngwin> ok, meeting closed +[23:29:38] <yngwin> ------------------------------------- |